Monday, June 09, 2008

Messianic Jews under attack - as usual

Time magazine has an article on the suffering being experienced by Messianic Jews in Israel.

The quick way of thinking about Messianic Jews is that they are approximately orthodox Jews who believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah.

They still follow the cultural aspect of being Jews, like their festivals and customs, the Sabbath and wear all the religious paraphernalia as the occasion requires.

I know of a few friends who are Messianic Jews. I have been to their services. As far as I can remember their liturgy is not the same as the traditional liturgy. I do not recall having confession/absolution nor recitation of the Apostle's Creed etc. I remember that it was semi-charismatic in that they clapped and raised their hands. Their music was original and Hebraic and Psalmic in tune and lyrics. They lit the candles etc. Structurally, their liturgy is more deflected from the way the traditional liturgy has been done.

So, do people have an opinion about this? Should they follow their cultural upbringing and should they have their own type of Christian spirituality? After all Christianity is Jewish in origin, correct? I just want to hear some opinions.

Oh, while we think about this, let us not forget to pray for them too.


steve martin said...

I feel very sorry for the Messianic Jews. They are leading double lives.

It's too bad they just can't drop the Judeism and enter fully the family of Christ.

As a side note, I see that banner of the C O E X I S T mantra on bumper stickers around here, and I always want to say to the people displaying it that the first letter there, the C which has the star next to it (represnting the crescent of Islam) does not want to coexist with the others, But wants the others to submit to Isalm.

That religion of that first is the problem.But I digress.

Thanks L.P.!

- Steve M.

steve martin said...

'Islam' (I've got to take my time with my two flying fingers)

Doorman-Priest said...

There should be nothing wrong with a personal expression of religion which takes into consideration any cultural aspect with which the worshipper strongly identifies.

At the same time would most Christians not agree that there is some reducable minimum that is recognisably Christian in a liturgy which claims to be Christian?

Anders said...

Hello! I found your website. My name is Anders Branderud and I am from Sweden.

I think that those who are born Jews should 100 percent follow Judaism.

Who was the historical J*esus?

I am a follower of Ribi Yehoshua – Mashiakh – who practiced Torah including Halakhah with all his heart.
He was born in Betlehem 7 B.C.E . His faher name was Yoseiph and mother’s name was Mir′ yâm. He had twelve followers. He tought in the Jewish batei-haknesset (synagogues). Thousands of Jews were interested in His Torah-teachings. Some Jews who didn’t practice Judaism where threatened. They decided to crucify him. So they did - together with the Romans. His followers were called Netzarim (meaning offshoots [of a olive tree]) and they continued to pray with the other Jews in the synagogues.

Christianity does not teach the teachings of Ribi Yehoshua. Ribi Yehoshuas teachings were pro-Torah; Christianity is anti-Torah. 2 billions of Christians doesn’t follow Torah – that is definied as sin according to Torah.

If you want to learn more click at our website -- than click at the lick "Christians"; click at my photo to read about what made my switch religion from Christianity to Orthodox Judaism.

Anders Branderud
Follower of Ribi Yehoshua in Orthodox Judaism

L P Cruz said...


There is such a thing as an adiaphora. The Scripture does not record for us an order. Sure some parts of scripture as text were taken from an alleged liturgy but it has not been recorded en toto as liturgy to us.

Now of course, if you are EO, then the Liturgy as your church is doing it must be from heaven and inspired.

So withing reason, I think some cultural stuff that serves to promote the Gospel may be considered.

The Messianic congregation I attended are Christians - they practice baptism, has the OT and NT books as we have them etc.


L P Cruz said...


Thank you for your comments.

Now this Ribi Yehoshua you speak about, is he still dead or did he rise from the dead?

So he was crucified too and was his crucifixion as payment for our sins or was it just an injustice done to his person?

So I imangine that the Jesus of Nazareth that Christians worship would be an embellishment of your Ribi Yehoshua, correct? Something that other Jews invented like folks with the name Peter, James, John and Paul right?

Confirm my hunches, would you?



steve martin said...


I appreciate your insight into this 'Jewishness' question.

It 's an area that I'm familiar wit, or have given a great deal of thought to.

I appreciate your insights and have an open my to the question.I have already learned much(from you) that I didn't know about Messianic Jews.

Thank you!

-Steve M.

steve martin said...


Sorry... (I have got to take my time when typing)...

I meant to write that it is NOT an area that I am familiar with.

Steve Newell said...


Is Judaism the same religion as beliefs what we see in the Old Testament? Where is the blood sacrifices? How can there be the forgiveness of sin sin without the shedding of blood?

L P Cruz said...

Steve M,

I have not gotten it all figured out and I am as much in a journey as you. In fact you got me thinking a bit more on the 3rd use of the Law.

At anyrate, I will be inter-state this weekend but next week, I will come back and worship with these Messianic ones and this time I will try to figure out where our traditional liturgy coincide with theirs. Also, I hope they have communion when I go so I can see what they are doing with it.


L P Cruz said...

Steve N,

I really want Anders to come back to us on this because they are presenting a slant to the Christian view of Jesus.

The slant is not unheard of, the website he gave does not answer for me if he was raised from the dead.

Also, what should be gained by the Hellenists who invented the Christian story about this Ribi Yehoshua?

I like some answers so we can test their thesis.


steve martin said...


Have a nice trip! We'll talk to you when you get back.

- Steve M.

Augustinian Successor said...

Dear Big Bro. Lito,

Journey mercies! The Lord richly bless your trip.

L P Cruz said...


Thanks for your best wishes bros, continue the conversation and have fun.