Thursday, July 31, 2008

Mere shared opinions

From time to time I surf the blog world. My prof said - if you want to write, you need to read. So I read as I surf.

Then I go visit Dr. Ichabod, only to discover that what I tucked away in my mind, he has already spelled out and articulated, and articulated well. OK, I am coming out of the closet...I do read dangerous subversive material s(LOL)Winking.

Here are a few shared opinions he featured in his blog.

[click on the paragraphs to go to the linked articles]

1. There seems to be a Waltherian synodical worship present amongst 'confessors'. Do not get me wrong, I learned a lot from Walther's Law and Gospel book, but as a 'church father' he is to be treated like the rest - capable of over stating his case. I sense this was specially true when it came to synod loyalty. Enclaves, sometimes this is what comes to my mind when I think of Synods in the US.

2. I prefer uni education for honing or sharpening theological scholarship. Over here, we were taught to be a wide ( and in my case be a wild) reader. Of course it is semi-dangerous, but it is less dangerous! At uni, you know who not to take seriously and dismiss. I am not sure that is the case in seminaries, it depends. Teachers in sems can easily hide under labels and catch words.

3.I also believe that reconciliation and justification are to be distinguished though not separate. We do this already with justification and sanctification. We distinguish the two but we do not separate. Trouble happens when they are mixed and lumped. My theory is that mixing reconciliation with justification leads to some anti-nomian indifference, one of which is Roma-phelia

Self-criticism is a virtue encouraged by Scripture - it tells us to examine ourselves. It should be specially applied even to the thoughts of the teachers we respect and esteem.

1 Timothy 4:16 (English Standard Version)

16(A) Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save(B) both yourself and(C) your hearers.

Well, that is my opinion anyway, so please try not to confuse me by giving me facts (LOL)Laughing.



Anonymous said...

Great post L.P.!

You have inspired me to read more. After I'm finished with 'Green Eggs and Ham' (the book, not the meal) I will give Dr. Ichabod a whirl.

LPC said...

Steve M,

Take things always with a grain of salt.

We do what scripture says, take the good, chuck the bad.

You may not agree with him 100% but I have no other blog I find that has this thorough going realism and self criticism as his blog.


arachesostufo said...

ciao da scorzè venezia

LPC said...

prego, ciao.

I was in venezia 2002.


Anonymous said...

Taking one of Ichabod's points, i.e. university over seminary education, and boiling down my response to its absolute essence:

Universities form the intellect
Seminaries form the soul
Universities produce scholars
Seminaries produce pastors

By all means, let a pastor study at university if he wishes to become a scholarl, but let him first have his pastoral soul formed at seminary (and thereafter in the parish!).

"Theologia habitus practicus est: oratio, meditatio, tentatio"

LPC said...

Pr. M.

I was just thinking that the guy's local church should play a part in his soul formation either by sem or uni, I think we discussed this one time.

It really depends on the profs in the sem. We can not generalize.

On the down side sems are breeding grounds of ideologies too and the unsuspecting can get unguarded. Do you think this might be a point?

Ichabod's opinion is that Ft Wayne Concordia sem is producing turn coats than true coats in regularity. Of course this is anecdotal.

BTW, Ichabod does not necessarily agree with what I sometimes say, I am absolutely certain that he will take issue with me on some aspects of theology etc.


Anonymous said...


OK, I see this discussion has a particular context, i.e. Fort Wayne. My comment relates to general differences between university theology depts. & seminaries. The poor state of the Protestant church in Europe, for example, is directly related to the role of universities in theological formation of students for the ministry. When one considers the state of university religious studies faculties in Australia, I suggest that presents an even greater danger than a seminary with an ideological bent.

LPC said...

Pr. M,

I guess I am biased. I got a GDipHum(Religious Studies) at La Trobe, and I did get a prof who is anti-miracles but she is an authority on Aramaic.

One thing though, she may attack your faith but she is quite ethical that you are free to disagree with her without prejudice. The uni is set up for this sort of bully situations and has mechanism for dealing such cases.

We butt heads in class and a debate invariably happened. I felt of course intimidated at times, but iron sharpens iron and I came out I believe more skilled in my theological method.

She still gave me a good mark even if I gave her also a hard time.

In the world of apologetics, though, we can not hide our heads in the sand. Those people are out there and our people will encounter them, so we just have to be prepared to give an answer for our hope. That is where I am coming from on this.

Dr. Ichabod has a term - for some seminaries in one Synod - WELS. He he called them sausage factories.

I guess Pr. M. it really depends on the composition of the faculty.

I think at Luther Seminary there is superb scholarship, how do I know? I have encountered our pastors and they are pretty reasonably skillful in their theological methods.

I look at the graduates.A tree is known by the fruit it produces.


Anonymous said...


Studying under an authority on Aramaic is indeed a privilege, make the most of it!

A little about my context - when I was at sem people wanted to close it down because to them it was a, you guessed it, "sausage factory". Having candidates educated in university would have then broken down the confessional theology of the LCA and become the conduit by which liberal theology came to dominate the church.


LPC said...

Pr. M,

I understand, that is why I said it also depends on what is happening in the sem.

Another angle is that our LCA struggles in the middle, and she debates and she deliberates and allows the process of searching the mind of God on issues to go through its course.

You have a point there Pr. M. Uni education may not be for everyone. I am probably clouded because I am a survivor of it but others may have not survived. I had a Baptist classmate and he was thoroughly liberal and sided with most tripe liberal scholarship peddles. He was of course already liberal when he came but it amplified it.


Anonymous said...

A liberal Baptist? Heavens!
Lito, I honestly don't think I've ever encountered one of those...
But then, I have lived most of my life in Queensland, the Australian equivalent of the Deep South "Bible belt".
If we must have Baptists, let them be Fundamentalists, I say, at least you always know where you stand with those guys.

See you in Victoria soon.

LPC said...

I kid you not, the guy said so proudly himself. Rare specie of course and shocking, must be black sheep of fundamentalism. On the otherhand his experience might be the evidence of opposite and often powerful reaction.

Yes, Pr. M. Do call when you arrive. I attend Thomastown and Calvary (Greensborough).


Past Elder said...

Any of you guys have problems with getting an "Internet Exporer cannot open the page" message on some of the blogspot blogs the last few hours? I'm getting it on both my new and my old computer, and on the same blogs.

I find a liberal Baptist a lot more probable than a Reformed Anglican Lutheran, for jumping Judas' sake.

LPC said...

The server must be down when you looked at them.


David Cochrane said...

Past elder,

I have experienced that and still am with a couple of blogs. Thankfully I can view bro Lito's even though he reads subversive blogs! :P

God's peace. †

Past Elder said...

Seems to be cleared up now (which is 1116 Saturday morning where I am).

The first blogs I hit last night were the two Lutheran-turned-RC ones I visit -- on which I am taken as anything BUT a crypto-papist! -- and I thought maybe the RC guys blocked me out, one too many times ascribing some of their theology to having been the state religion of the Roman Empire!

But then I couldn't open Father Hollywood's either, so I thought maybe it's this computer (Vista, which I kind of like but it reminds me of ME in that opinions range from real bad to real good with little middle ground), but then I got the same response on my old computer (which, BTW, is ME).

Didn't have the problem on this blog either, and since a lot of the posters here are active bloggers, thought it was worth a mention. Thanks.

LPC said...

Bro. David,

I see that you and Bro. Steve M are in contact, that is a good thing, picking up new friends.


LPC said...


I have just been to the blog.

May I give you an Ichabod quote?

You should stop feeding wolves because they feed on the lambs.


Past Elder said...

Judas with Danish pastry.

Don't you just love English? That sentence could mean:

You're feeding wolves to make them stronger when they in turn feed on lambs, so knock it off.


Stop feeding wolves, because all it does, though you don't intend this, is get them stronger for feeding on lambs.

I know which you mean, just commenting on English.

What blog? Ichabloodybod's?

LPC said...

Fr. Bollywood's.