Saturday, May 17, 2008

It is between me and ____

Individualism - that attitude of independence, self-reliance, liberty and responsibility, is also present amongst Christians. How do you detect this? Normally you detect this in statements like "it is between me and ____". You can fill in the blank. The blank may stand for "God" or may stand for another individual - a wife, a son, a husband, daughter and what have you.

Christians are into this, absolutely. Tell a Christian about a behavior that needs repenting and they can say - it is between me and God. Or maybe they need to stop treating their relations badly and they can say - it is between me and my wife.

What does it imply when someone says "it is between me and ___"? It means, bugger off, you are not involve here, it is none of your business and so shut up. There are incidences that this is true, indeed it may be none of our business. But if this individualism is allowed to stand, society will turn to anarchy. Individualism breeds anarchy, actually, it also builds confusion.

I tell you why individualism does not work, even on a human level. Let us assume that someone just killed or murdered somebody. If we respect individualism, the criminal can say -- bugger off, it is between me and him (the victim). I want to know what the police might say or do to such a person who is guilty of that offense? Will they say - "right, it is none of our business, off you go"?

A decent society, if it is still decent that is, will not accept, the philosophy - it is none of your business. The police intrudes and prosecutes. It is not the relations of the victim that does this prosecuting, it is the police. Decent societies do not allow you to say -- it is none of your business. No, rather, decent societies make injustice and oppression their business.

Genesis 4:

9 Then the LORD said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?” He said, “I do not
know. Am I my brother’s keeper ?


steve martin said...

We live in the age of no accountability.

The truth is only the truth for you. I have my own truth.

Horse dung is still horse dung, no matter what age we are living in.

Thanks L.P.!

- Steve M.

L P Cruz said...

Steve M.

I detect this individualism in me and in the young people of today when they leave the old people out of their lives.

Just recently I had a discussion with a gentleman my age. We were both chuckling because he said his 22 year old son the other day was asking for some advice from his 19 year old sister. Yeah, right, the kids think that their parents know nothing about life, eyh?

No wonder they are tripping over quite badly. They could have saved themselves some heartaches or scars.

I cry for them but they say to us - bugger off, it is their life.
So we do, stand, then watch them suffer.


steve martin said...

L.P. Cruz,

And how! My 27 year 9ls son has all the answers...and is in and out of jail for a career.

He tells me of the great advice he hears from the guys in jail. In the meantime, I am a moron.

I guess God's law will have to crush them before anything will change. Everytime I think it (the law) has done a real number on him, he jumps right back up and into the frying pan once again.


- Steve M.

steve martin said...

That's '27 year old son...

sorry about that...

L P Cruz said...


I feel for you bro.

This is individualism that is infecting our kids. They do not see it because when you are in the woods you can only see the trees and not the whole forest.

I will pray for him. But I doubt if the church is into this individualism stuff rather than community stuff, we could give him good light, it could just aggravate it.

I hear Christian friends all the time speak to me about "it is between me and ___", and most of them are elders from the church!


Doorman-Priest said...

Now, you see, I just say "Bugger off." I don't add in the supplementary bits such as "it's between me and..."

Mind you, I have no friends.

Steve Newell said...

Many churches have been adversely affected by two things: excessive American individualism and most-modern view of truth. This reduce truth from "What does the bible say" to "What does the bible say to ME".

L P Cruz said...


Mind you ain't got no friends because.... you are an individual.



L P Cruz said...

Steve N.

Only a few Americans can appreciate that their most successful export is the American brand of individualism which is re-inforced in evangelicalism/pentecostalism. Pop-culture is also one of them which is a form of colonialism (cultural).

I am glad you are one of the few frank enough to say so.

It is rather alarming though because it is so subtle and looks benign.


Past Elder said...

Aw hell, and here we thought our main export was democracy!

When I was in Europe, it struck me that it took some effort to not find American food and music bloody everywhere. Or with a native surface. If I wanted a Quarter Pounder I'd have stayed home! Or a Quarter Pounder with some French sauce and wine. Then again, that's why we keep exporting it -- it sells.

Good thing for me the only place open the night we hit London was a Greek place in Bayswater, and they were closing so they wrote us a note in Greek and said to go to the corner and show it to a guy at a private club and we'd get it. And did we! I insisted on going back every night; it was fabulous! Being English descended myself, our cooking isn't all that great. Throw a bunch of stuff in a pot and boil it. I think that is why the coastal wars were so brutal between my ancestors and the Vikings -- they came ashore and found food as bad as theirs, got mad and trashed the place, which food continues in the parish dinners of Scandinavian Lutheran parishes. That's probably why they went all over hell in the long boats -- Hey Lars, you think they got anything good for lunch across the water?

Bless us and save us, Mrs O'Davis. It's between me and my stomach.

L P Cruz said...


Sorry it ain't democracy alone.

It is religion and capitalism.

Just look how pentecostalism has flourished around the triple As - Asia/Africa/Americas.

I wish it was just McDonalds and Dunkin Doughnuts but no, it had to be this brand of pietistic/revivalistic evangelicalism too.

Americans do it as a package - they give you food, politics, economics and religion at the same time (LOL)!

Look at what you guys did to my to my grandma - she could sing Star Spangled Banner, God Bless America with feelings. Then she mourned with the crowd when Gen McArthur passed away - 7 days - would you believe it? In her eyes you guys could do no wrong. She is with the Lord now but her war stories, boy, you could sit for hours listening to her.

Research shows that grandparents they do not think brown, they think white.

OK. they are extremely thankful for your educational but could Filipinos know who they are, you keep hanging around them! (LOL)

I am sending myself to a therapist -- to be de-colonized. (LOL)



Steve Newell said...


Australia maybe part of Common Wealth, but it's under American culture imperial control. :-)

In addition to American individualism, American Consumerism is another aspect affecting the Church. How many people look for a church like they look for a car? Are the seats comfortable? Is this a church what I want my friends see me attend? Is the church contemporary it is style?

The Scylding said...

Interesting - sort-of dovetails with the last couple of posts in my McPottage series over at my own blog...

L P Cruz said...


Very important point you raised in the process of hunting for a home church, there is peer pressure involved too. It is again about me, no?

Not about what God says about me.


L P Cruz said...


You are right, I just dropped a comment. It is wonderful when you can do a series and sustain your arguments.

I am too all over the place.