Saturday, February 09, 2008

Thoughts from Carrie

A couple of interactions with Carrie of But These Are Written got me thinking. Two thoughts got me brewing.

1. Over at in this article, I saw the post of Kepha, a young RC man who confessed that right now he is in between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism. As an ex-RC, I posted to him to consider first the real question - First what is the Biblical Gospel and which one is believing, teaching and confessing it? Carrie being an ex-RC herself, helped in. Over the course of conversation, the definition of what a Church is got into focus. You can read them in here. Carrie said this...

I let Rome define herself

Well, sure, we can knock ourselves out believing that there is the Church where the Gospel is preached and the Sacraments properly given, i.e. we can define it locally and congregationally. This is Biblical of course.

You can "protest" and reject Mother Church's definition of what Church is all you want until the trams get into the depot, but try not to be naive. Mother Church defines herself as an institution. Sure you may treat the local ones Biblically, that is possible. It is possible to be inconsistent with the Institution but we can not make the mistake, there is this group of people called the Magisterium and you have to deal with them as the way they define themselves.

Carrie is right, when dealing with her, no one dares to speak for her but she herself. It does not matter if she contradicts herself, that by itself is not a crime. That for most part is irrelevant, sure it is serious but not as serious if her contradictions contradict Scripture itself. Yet, only then can you point the light by first assuming how she defines herself (and not how she should do it), and then show the definition of the Church. The Gospel defines the Church.

2. I was also replying to her in one of her comments here and in the course, I quoted from the blue Psalm 121
1 I lift up my eyes to the hills— where does
my help come from?
2 My help comes from the LORD,
the Maker of heaven and earth

Our help does come from the hills. The hill where our help comes has a name, it is called Calvary. It is from the Lord, the maker of heaven and earth. Indeed, our help has come indeed. It is the same God who gave the Law, he is the same God who gives the help we need and no less than his very precious best, Jesus is his name. God does not help those who can help themselves, that would be superflous. In fact it is the reverse, he helps those who have no help... but him


Carrie said...

Wow, I am honored I made you think. Especially considering I am only half-geek.

That conversation unfortunately got ugly for off-topic reasons so I am done there, but I realized no one ever really answered my questions. That group has a very different theological opinion from me but I really was sincere in trying to understand where they were coming from, but I walked away confused.

I am glad you understood the "let Rome define Rome" - why wouldn't we. My "crowd" bucks when Rome trys to define us as an institution in conflict (30,00 denomination anarchy) b/c they are trying to define us on their terms. Makes no sense.

Well, your second thought is lovely. My husband was talking to a man in our church who was a former RC and he said the turning point was when someone asked him why he was working when Jesus had already done all the work.

L P Cruz said...


It seems that you have to be an ex-RC to understand RCC. Practical experience on the ground and insights gathered from practicing the teachings help to properly deal with her with no sentimental nor romantic undertones.

Lutherans have a simple theology and even its sacramental understaning is tied to this---The Cross.

The Lord guide your journey.