The RC e-apologists must be very happy.
I should like to say "think before you convert".
No, I wasn't saying this to Anglicans. I meant this to the Lutherans who get so nervous, they are left out of the party.
Anyway, I have just thought of a technique for those RCs who want to become priests but are afraid of being celibate. Why not be an Anglican priest first, then convert. You can have your wife and the ministry too. I think that should do the trick.
17 comments:
Funny, the OZ says "thousands" will convert, but the last figure I heard quoted by someone in the know was that about 200 laity are involved in this movement to Rome. Not insignificant, but not as significant as The Australian suggests. I wonder what the numbers are in reality? perhaps we won't know until after the fact.
I don't believe it will be by the thousands either. You can count the anglo-catholic congregations in here.
LPC
Lito,
I've been to TAC services where there were more clergy present than laity! That's not necessarily a reflection on their spiritual strength or otherwise, but I think it is a clear indicator that they are a very top-heavy, clerical-driven movement.
Important to consider not only those who have converted to Rome and those talking about it, but also those who have positioned themselves, knowingly or not, to move there when the circumstances will seem to require it.
The Papacy is the seat of the Antichrist as confirmed by Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions. The New World Order is positioning to not only be the global secular ruling body, in the most severe Chairman Mao sense of the phrase, but also focused even more so on being the global religious ruling body headed by the Antichrist.
As seen in the United States the majority of those in the Lutheran churches, both clergy and laity, have set the Synod in their hearts as lord. They now doubt Scripture and have relinquished all authority over doctrine and practice to holy mother Synod. When the NWO global bank, the IMF, removes all funding from the Synods these Synod worshipers will look for a new entity to lead them, to mother them as their Synods did before. This is already happening as we watch Rome gather her offspring as a dragon gathers it's brood.
Pr. M.
It seems like that it is really at the top that this movement is finding momentum, it does not look like it is a partnership movement between priest and laity.
BTW, my prof being an Oxfordian comes from an Anglo-Catholic background. He and I talk about my Christian faith. I gave him the Luther movie. I have shared with him the gospel but I would like to get more opportunity to discuss this in a more direct way, could you please pray for this.
LPC
B.M.
Yes, I can see the posturing happening already amongst so called "confessing" Lutherans. These claim for themselves the name, but their behaviour betrays their labelling. I say this, because it is quite amazing how they speak of B16 in glowing terms.
LPC
"That's not necessarily a reflection on their spiritual strength ..."
EITHER way ... no.
Brett's right. The pope as the Antichrist and the Jesuits as the military order in the total sense (secret society, intelligence service, think-tank, etc. etc.) is actually the real power behind the machinations towards the NWO.
They right at the very top. Interesting how the little horn operates. From the smallest of all the micro-states in the world. The temporal sword is still there alright but someone's doing the dirty work.
Brett's right. The pope as the Antichrist and the Jesuits as the military order in the total sense (secret society, intelligence service, think-tank, etc. etc.) is actually the real power behind the machinations towards the NWO.
They right at the very top. Interesting how the little horn operates. From the smallest of all the micro-states in the world. The temporal sword is still there alright but someone's doing the dirty work.
This is why ALL roads LEAD to ROME.
Will do so, Lito.
If he is of Anglo-Catholic background, it is quite possible he has never heard the Gospel clearly, as in my experience Anglo-Catholic clergy don't 'major' on the Gospel, rather, they major on minor things, like 'spirituality', or even vestments, incense and ritual minutiae. Whatever spiritual power the movement may once have had, it has long since gone, imo. Not co-incidentallly, their spiritual father, J.H. Newman criticised the Lutheran doctrine of justification.
Btw, did you get my second e-mail, Lito?
It bounced back to me for some reason. In it I suggested two ways to re-phrase the questionable words you quoted from the LCA wenpage.
The genius of Rome is adjusting to the times and subordinating everyone, including the Eastern Orthodox. The prayer beads are more Jesus-oriented and Purgatory is tucked into the back corner of the janitor's closet. Nevertheless, the old Tridentine doctrines remain and infallibility of the pope increases. ELCA clergy imagine they are escaping the Enthusiasm of Church Growth when they unite with Roman Enthusiasm.
The Anglos have always substituted true spirituality with false spirituality. All the obsession with religious paraphernalia and what not is regarded as true religion and catholicity. In other words, the Anglos treasure junk rather pearls.
On the other hand, the low church evangelicals are no better ... Methodism, revivalism, experientalism, etc. is EQUALLY junk spirituality. Of course, they're the forbears of the Pentecostals and Charismatics. The Great Awakening, revivals in the 18th and 19th century do not, never did represent Reformation spirituality.
In this respect, the critique of the Tractarians and the Anglo-Catholic movement overagainst low church evangelicals were essentially spot on.
"ELCA clergy imagine they are escaping the Enthusiasm of Church Growth when they unite with Roman Enthusiasm."
Add the LCMS clergy. Somehow or rather, they think that the differences between Rome and confessional Lutheranism are small than imagined. They equate their so-called confessional Lutheranism with ritual. Ritual is fine until what you hear or read what they say on doctrine. That's when you know they ain't the real deal.
Without the Gospel of justification by faith alone, ritual degenerates into playing church ... just plain Enthusiasm.
Gives one a sense of hopelessness when trying to expose the ecumenical fellowship between (W)ELS, LCMS and ELCA on the issue of murdering babies when they all so gladly will embrace Rome as their Christian (sic) brothers and sisters while Rome has for hundreds of years promoted and protected the practice of serial pedophilia as a church rite. The Roman church is there to worship and adore the Antichrist and further his influence in the world, so it's appropiate that pedophilia is their glory. So it should be abhorent to us to witness those who long to join them.
Yes I observe that the Anglo-Caths (Puseyites)are enamoured with bells and smells.
RCC is a cameleon. It accommodates everyone so long us you bow down to the Pope you are welcome. You can be what you want to be so long us you do not buck the pope. You can be a secret-Prot or a secret-hindu, you can be an atheist, an advocate of abortion, gay, a paedo or what not and you will live in peace inside her, so long as you do not antagonize the pope, you are ok.
I have seen RC priests adopt the latest religious trend, they take off their clerical clothing wear tie and suite and preach like Benny Hinn. They sing Hill Song stuff and look like a Pentecostal preacher. What they are saying is that you do not have to go or leave the church, whatever you want religiously, they are willing to give.
What do you call this? Is it not spiritual whoring?
I once spoke to a Lutheran pastor who happened to be a bit sympathetic to Romanism. I told him about my experience as an ex-RC where my country's brand of Romanism is hard core. He excused my comment saying - "But oh, those idolatrous practices are not part of official teaching, I am more into official teaching". A bit naive.
In RCC, the practice IS the teaching.
LPC
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