Friday, August 08, 2008

On vacation, but think about this...

The picture says it all doesn't it? Be good, there will be no post for the next 2 weeks.

For our reflection I am featuring again Mykalos' brutally frank comments...

Talking about “CC (Closed Communion)” I would single out the main controversial issue.

Separation of so-called conservative synods is usually based on doctrines lying outside BoC. E.g.: a) on the question of salvation by faith alone we all, Protestants, are united; b) on the essence of Eucharist there is a virtual agreement not only among Lutherans but also among them and many Orthodox Christians. Moreover (and it’s a principal point!), in order to be Lutheran someone has not to sign the complete BoC (including FoC). It is sufficient for him to share the Augsburg Confession (AC) only. The BoC is a historical document for German synod in XVI c. (and, of course, for LCMS and WELS as for traditional German descendants in the US:-)). Even for Scandinavian
Lutherans in XVI c. and up-to-day the complete BoC wasn't a document of obligation. They were satisfied with AC and Luther's catechisms.

Probably I’d specify: I am for the "CC" but ... for all Lutherans. It might be "closed" for Christians of other denominations because we cannot be reasonably sure whether they confess salvation by faith alone (without any add conditions) and real presence of Christ in the
Sacrament. But among believers of AC ("traditional" or "liberal" in their hearts) there should be no barriers in communion with Christ.

Well, whether views on the status of deuterocanonical Scriptures or a place of women in church public ministry are really determinative for a “communion gap”? These stuffs are not in BoC at all but they are present in “constitutions” and “confessional statements” of some synods. In this case is the Communion a tool of manipulation or a mean of grace?

I covet your prayers for a safe trip. My love to all of you. Peace be with youse alls.


steve martin said...

Bon voyage, L.P.Cruz,...bon voyage.

May the Lord bless you and keep you.

Thursday's Child said...

Absolutely! Lutherans are Lutherans. There may be those who are more conservative or liberal (even both, depending upon the issue at hand), but we all agree on AC and the Catechism. (I need to find the BoC before I can say 'yes'. I could read it online but my eyes start having fits.)

Have a great vacation!

L P Cruz said...


Thanks for your best wishes.

Hope to talk to you soon.


Past Elder said...

Lutherans are not Lutherans.

The word is meaningless as a designation of the content of belief. As with Protestant, Catholic and even Christian itself, it is used by people and organisations of widely varying belief and practice.

Therefore, to avoid judging hearts, or for that matter organisations, we go on what objectively presents itself. Here is what this body says it believes. You say you belong to this organisation.

Unfortunately, this will mean that there is no communion, since the public profession of the body and the person is not what we believe as Lutheran.

When I became Lutheran (in either synod, one CELC and one ILC) I professed that the entire BOC is an accurate statement of Christian belief -- especially as taught in the LC, not only as taught in the LC.

Past Elder said...

And what I really wanna know is, is Cinco y media (I know the Filipino spelling is different, but can't remember it!) still on from Manila? I loved watching that on this local cable channel that ran news shows from all over the world -- which the cable company quit showing on the service I get from them, drag.

They do show the service from the big old Lutheran church in town, now ELCA. Or rather, EL?A. Not Lutheran. No Communion with them nor they with us.

Augustinian Successor said...

Dear Kuya,

Dominus vobiscum ET cum spiritu tuo! ;-)

Have a blessed vacation with your wife and family!

joel in ga said...

Many LCMS churches require of their members only doctrinal agreement with the Small Catechism. The AC is rarely mentioned.

May the Lord keep your going out and your coming in!

L P Cruz said...


Thank you for your best wishes.

I am blessed to have you guys here.

I am doing a lot of catching up with my mom, and my siblings.

Since I am the eldest, I am expected to lead the clan. Mom is not that strong anymore.

Please pray for me to get the gospel clearly explained to them.

blessings of our Lord be with you too.