Monday, October 23, 2006

Funny Mix

I sometimes get surprized when I see some zealot Puritan Calvinist bloggers put the picture of Martin Luther along side the picture of John Calvin, Jonathan Edwards and Charles Spurgeon together in the same spot!

I think this is naive. This is not seriously dealing with the teachings of Luther and is fanciful. I believe the smelly monk Luther would have spewed out explatives upon seing his picture along side these men. For one thing Luther would have rejected Calvin's view of the Lord's Supper because it falls short, since it stems from a Nestorian view of Christ. He would have been upset with Edward's mysticism and would have lumped him with the Enthusiasts, and most of all, he would have anathematized the baptistic Spurgeon for being an AnaBaptist in his baptist doctrine.

8 comments:

Anonymous said...

Lito, that makes Luther sound like he thought that he knew God better than everyone else who disagreed with him. Praise God that we are called to follow Jesus, though, and not Luther. Luther was just another sinner like that rest of us, after all.

Would you agree?

Matt

L P Cruz said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
L P Cruz said...

Agree 100%. For that reason, they should not put Luther in the mix because it does not add to their cause no matter how they esteem him. He would have said "thanks, but no thanks".

The man was intolerant and dogmatic.

Anonymous said...

Yes Luther would have disagreed with Calvin in some areas but history shows that the two had much more in common, and a great deal of respect for one another in spite of their differences. Of course that is because both were united in opposing Zwinglism.

You are probably right about Edwards - although I do think that Luther was not quite as virtuolic as your post intimates.

Finally, I think personality wise Luthe and Spurgeon would have much in common - however you should know that the modern Baptists have no historical connection to the anabapists. Modern Baptists arose out of the English Reformation later. Anabapits theological heirs are the mennoties, amish, etc.

L P Cruz said...

I think it was more that Calvin respected Luther. Opposing Zwinglianism? Calvin never got rid of his mentor (Zwingli's) influence though. Luther would have not tolerated the redefinition of "real presence" of Calvin. Melanchton was scared to share Calvin's letter on this with Luther. The thing though is that although Calvin signed the Augsburg Confession, he did not line himself with the mainstream Lutherans but made some concessions towards Rome, an example was his definition of what faith is.

I can not say about personalities etc, that is too subjective. I can only analyze the doctrines they espouse so on Spurgeon...

I do not think that Luther would appreciate Spurgeon's refusal to baptize children. Luther believed in baptismal regeneration, and if Spurgeon believed that he would not have been a Baptists.
Luther would have considered Baptists to be AnaBaptist because they re-baptize formerly baptized people and both Baptist and AnaBaptist require the candidate to be adults with ability to profess, hence in that respect they are the same doctrinal connection or pedigree. Sure the Baptist may not believe as the AnaBaptist do about the body of Christ being prepared from heaven, but in as far as Baptist rebaptize they are Ana Baptist. They do have doctrinal connections in this respect.

I notice that Reformed folk pick and chose and even redefine Luther in their own eyes. I know Baptists admire Luther, but I doubt if Luther would have admired the Baptists.

Steve Finnell said...

WHAT DID THE FIRST CHRISTIANS BELIEVE?

THE CHURCH OF CHRIST HAD ITS BEGINNING ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST 33 A.D.. WHAT BELIEFS AND ACTIONS DID THE THREE THOUSAND CONVERTS TO CHRIST HAVE IN COMMON? DID GOD APPROVE OF EVOLVING BELIEFS, DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS FOR SALVATION? IF THAT WERE TRUE, THEN WOULD IT NOT BE FOUND IN THE NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES?

Acts 2:41 So then, those who received his word were baptized; and there were added about three thousand souls. Acts 2:47....And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.

All three thousand believed the apostle Peter's message and were baptized in water. Then they were added to the Lord's church by the Lord Himself. The Lord did not add the unsaved to His church. They had to believe and be baptized in water prior to being added to the body of Christ.

1. Acts 2:22 Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know---

All three thousand believed Jesus was a miracle worker.

2. Acts 2:31-32 he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that He was neither abandoned to Hades, nor did His flesh suffer decay. 32 This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses.

All three thousand believed in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

3. Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ---this Jesus whom you crucified."

All three thousand believed that Jesus was Lord and Christ.

4. Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

All three thousand repented in order to have sins forgiven. (repentance meant that they made the commitment to turn from their unbelief and sinful lifestyle and turn toward God).

All three thousand were baptized in water in order to have their sins forgiven.

All three thousand received the indwelling gift of the Holy Spirit after they believed, repented, and were baptized in water.

5. Acts 2:40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, "Be saved from this perverse generation!"

All three thousand were saved after they believed Peter's message: They believed, repented, confessed, and were baptized in water. (Mark 16:16, John 3:16, Acts 3:19, Acts 2:38, Romans 10:9-10, Acts 8:35-38) THEN THEY WERE ADDED TO THE LORD'S CHURCH! (Acts 2:47)

WHAT THINGS DID PETER NOT PREACH AND WHAT THINGS DID THE THREE THOUSAND NOT BELIEVE.

1.Peter did not preach that men were saved by grace alone.

2.Peter did not preach that men were saved by faith only

3.Peter did not preach that God had selected a few to be saved and that all others would go to hell.

4. Peter did not preach that water baptism was not essential to salvation.

5. Peter did not preach that Jesus was just one of many Saviors.

6. Peter did not preach that once you were saved, that you could continue in a sinful lifestyle and still be saved.

7. Peter did not preach that God did not have the power to give us an inerrant translation of the Scriptures.

8. Peter did not preach that God would provide hundreds or thousands of different Christian denominations, and that they would teach different ways of being saved.

9. Peter did NOT preach that you had to speak in tongues as evidence that you were saved.

AS BELIEVERS IN CHRIST, MEN SHOULD USE THE BIBLE AS THEIR GUIDE FOR SALVATION. Looking to man-made creed books, Bible commentaries, denominational statements of faith, and church catechisms, is looking in all the wrong places for the absolute truth!

YOU ARE INVITED TO FOLLOW MY BLOG. http://steve-finnell.blogspot.com

LPC said...

You said 1.Peter did not preach that men were saved by grace alone.

2.Peter did not preach that men were saved by faith only


We should leave all the rest of Scripture and just focus on the verses you presented but deny they are consistent?

To be granted salvation by faith in Christ is Grace, because that faith trusts the Merits of Christ which He has won for mankind.

There were many people whom Christ sent away in peace commending their faith in him.

Baptism to us (Lutherans) is the Gospel and it is tied up to justification by faith. This is true since repentance, faith and baptism are all Gifts of God - all is grace.

LPC

LPC said...

You said 1.Peter did not preach that men were saved by grace alone.

2.Peter did not preach that men were saved by faith only


We should leave all the rest of Scripture and just focus on the verses you presented but deny they are consistent?

To be granted salvation by faith in Christ is Grace, because that faith trusts the Merits of Christ which He has won for mankind.

There were many people whom Christ sent away in peace commending their faith in him.

Baptism to us (Lutherans) is the Gospel and it is tied up to justification by faith. This is true since repentance, faith and baptism are all Gifts of God - all is grace.

LPC