Tuesday, November 01, 2005

Famous RC Apologist Calls Pope Heretic

This is interesting. I was surfing AOMIN.ORG and I was led to this article on Gerry Matatics. Prof Matatics was a Protestant minister (Presbyterian) who converted to Roman Catholicism. He was convinced by former Presbyterian minister Scott Hahn to convert to RC. From then on Mr. Matatics apparently have succeeded in bringing Protestants and non-RCs to Rome. A staunch defender of the RC doctrine/theology and practice, he says this of the last popes...


4. I believe, and publicly teach, that the Catholic Church has always infallibly taught that because heretics are not members of the Catholic Church, they cannot validly hold office in the Church, according to divine law, and that, should they seem to hold such offices, the believing Catholic must conclude that their election to and possession of such offices is null and void. This would include, not only the manifest heretics John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I, and John Paul II, but also the manifest heretic and present illicit and invalid occupant of the See of Peter, Benedict XVI, who has the further handicap (unlike his immediate four predecessors) of not even having been validly consecrated a bishop, which, in addition to all other considerations, makes it impossible for him to therefore function as Bishop of Rome.


There are some things that Mr. Matatics agree with the Protestants, the papacy is the seat of the anti-Christ so says their confessions of faith. Heretics are called like that in the NT (see Epistles of John - 1,2,3 John).

It appears that what has been happening with Mr. Matatics is a form of disillusionment, and who knows, he maybe just touring Rome on the way back to Westminster.

22 comments:

Venerable Aussie said...

Hey, Matatics is just doing a Luther - spinning off into space shouting "I'm right, the Church is wrong". It's happened before and will happen again. In fact, the Bible guarantees it! (see Jn 6: 53-66)

Matatics has been on this trajectory for some time, but before you rush to his defence you better know what you're buying into. As Karl Keating has said: (see http://www.catholic.com/newsletters/kke_040127.asp)

"(To Matatics,) anyone further removed from the Catholic Church would have even less hope--or no hope--of salvation. This would include not just the unbaptized but also Protestants. (Matatics has said in public that he expects his own parents to go to hell, because they remain Protestants.) ... As a practical matter, therefore, Matatics's position reduces to the position (that) formal members of the Catholic Church are saved, and everyone else is lost."

It's such an irony that you praise Matatics for calling numerous Popes "heretics" when his very rationale demands calling Protestants such as yourself damned! Gee, I'd stick with the position of Christ's Church on this one!

And as regards the review of Scott Hahn's book, well what can you say about a review which starts with this sort of personal attack: "What sorts of people write autobiographies when they are healthy and well at 35? Generally there are three sorts: egotists, egomaniacs, and megalomaniacs", and then at the end of the article: "Only the grace of God can save us from another Dark Age and the church that Luther recognized as the slaughterhouse of souls."

Mate, like many of my Aussie friends, I'm new to apologetics (and have been greatly inspired by Scott Hahn's biblical-based testimony) and there's one major thing I've learned: let's engage in friendly dialogue. It's best not to link to hate screeds.

By the way, I went on a retreat on the weekend and was astonished to read about the early Church Fathers' testimony about the Mass - especially the comments of St. Justin Martyr, in an apology to the Emperor Antoninus, who writes in the 2nd century: “We do not receive these things as common bread and drink; but as Jesus Christ our Savior was made flesh by the word of God, even so we have been taught that the Eucharist is both the flesh and the blood of the same incarnate Jesus.” His description for the Emporer of the Mass perfectly mirrors the Mass we Catholics attend today!

No wonder they say that you can't read about the early Church and remain a non-Catholic!

L P Cruz said...

The position of Romanism as said by Trent (and the Trent anathemas) have not been officially revoked yet by the RC, it says we protestants are damned too so you are mistaken if you think I take comfort in Matatics' view, that is not my point in posting this incident.

What I point out is the irony that ensues in Romanism due to its belief in the sacred office of the papacy. For example, since the Pope is elected and viewed as the vicar of Christ, what happens when there are anomalies in the election of the pope?

Matatics only takes to the logical conclusion RC's belief system. He views Vatican II as not consistent with Vatican I and Council of Trent. He is being consistent and being a real Roman Catholic.

By the way, protestants consider themselves as I said catholic (small c). The problem with RC apologists is that when catholic is mentioned, they think "ah, this means the Roman Catholic church". EOs and Anglicans consider themselves catholic too. I am amazed at the way the word 'catholic' is always claimed by RCs as referrent to them exclusivelye each time it is mentioned in early documents.

Please familiarise yourself with the way organizations like LDS and INC reason and assert their authority and you will see the way RC magisterium is operating. I shall be happy to discuss this with you.

As to Scott's conversion, prots will probably call his experience the experience of 'enthusiasts'. You can research about what Lutherans say about 'enthusiasts'.

There are too many things to comment on and I plan one day to also comment on Scott Hahns' conversion.

May I also recommend you read and consider the conversion stories of nuns and priests at

http://www.bereanbeacon.org/

Anonymous said...

The name "Catholic" simply means "Universal". The early true Christians used "Catholic" as the name of God's one and only spiritual Church, the spiritual heavenly Jerusalem, the spiritual Bride of Christ, the spiritual one Body of Christ with the Lord Jesus Christ as the Head of His one Body. The Roman Catholics do not belong to the true Catholic Church but neither do the Orthodox, the Protestants or the Mormons; etc. Here is a letter to all of them that gives the reasons why:

Well, i just found out about the 4096 character limit and my letter does not quite fit although i can get it to print out on one single page. You can ask me for it - canawedding at aol dot com.

PS: I would like to leave the following, if it fits. The real Lord Jesus Christ told us to seek first God's Kingdom and God's Righteousness, Mt 6:33a. This command is expounded in other Scriptures but probably best in Ro 1:16-25. In the Scriptures there is a Righteousness from God revealed that is by Faith and this is what we must believe according to Scriptures such as Mk 1:14-15. What, exactly, is it that we must find first, repent, believe and make more important than our own physical lives? If you do not know, then you must start over and find the narrow Gate that leads to the narrow Road of eternal Life, Mt 7:13-14!

L P said...

Anonymous,

It would be appreciated if you hold the truth that you identify yourself in the posts here.

What, exactly, is it that we must find first, repent, believe and make more important than our own physical lives?

I already know what this is, thanks for the offer.

LPC

Anonymous said...

To LPC,

I did identify myself in the letter that didn't fit. And, my email address is there for those who want the letter.

You wrote: I already know what this is, thanks for the offer.

I'm glad you know but do you really? What baptism do you believe in and who must give it?

I noticed Justin Martyr was also mentioned above and misunderstood. Here is a paragraph from the letter i wanted to leave:

Other true Christians have also expounded many amazing prophecies. For two excellent examples, I will recommend Justin Martyr’s “Dialogue with Trypho, a Jew” and Augustin’s “Expositions on the Psalms”. Both of these true Christians explained many prophecies. What they wrote is available online. The Roman Catholics claim these two true Christians as their saints but the Roman Catholics have no idea that Justin, Augustin and others exposed them as heretics and anti-Christs along with all of the other false Christians in the Mormon, Orthodox and Protestant denominations and cults. Note: When the early true Christians used the name “Catholic”, they were describing God’s spiritual universal true Church, not the Roman Catholics who came later or the false denominations and cults that have evolved out of them.

anne robare

L P said...

Anne,

To answer your question:

I confess the Nicene Creed's line on baptism: we acknowlege one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

Thus through my own, I cannot repent nor believe.

Repentace and faith are God's gifts to us which God himself creates through his Word and Sacrament.

Repentance and faith are not my works but they are all God's work.

If one believes there is something in his/her person that enables him to do the above, then that person is still not in repentance.

LPC

Anonymous said...

To LPC,

When John the Baptist went to prison, Jesus Christ began His earthly Ministry and He told us to repent and believe, Mk 1:14-15. Believe what, exactly? We were given something to believe that Paul probably explained best in Ro 1:16-25 where he was expounding Mt 6:33a. In Jn 6, Jesus Christ said, "Work not for the food which perisheth but for the food which abideth unto eternal Life, which the Son of man shall give unto you, for him the Father, even God, hath sealed." Then the people asked Jesus Christ: "What must we do, that we may work the works of God?" What did He say? "This is the work of God: that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent." So, everyone has been given a work to do. What is it, exactly, that we must believe? And, who must seal us?

Some so-called Christians think Paul and James did not agree on works but they always did. Little do these so-called Christians realize that there are 2 kinds of works. The one leads to eternal death and the other to eternal Life. These so-called Christians also love to quote from Eph 2 but they forget Eph 2:10 and many other similar Scriptures. They have no idea what the "first Love" and "first works" in Rev 2 are that the Ephesians were told to do or their candlestick would be removed. These so-called Christians think they are like the Ephesians but that is far from the Truth. The so-called Christians also do not realize that the word "grace" should never have been translated in Eph 2, not once. The only Greek word that should have been translated as "grace" is "charis" and it is not in Eph 2 at all, not once.

God's Grace, God's Light, God's Love have appeared to all, Jn 1; Jn 3; Tus 2. However, God's Grace, God's Light, God's Love will not remain with anyone who ignores or rejects God's Word, especially Mt 6:33a. God calls but only those who repent, believe and obey will be chosen, Mt 22; Jn 14-15. Where must we begin? We were told to seek first God's Kingdom and God's Righteousness, Mt 6. "First" means first. We were told to "ask ... seek ... knock" so that we will find the narrow gate that opens to the narrow road that few will find, Mt 7; Lk 11-13.

You say there is one baptism and that is correct but what baptism is it? John baptized with physical water but Jesus Christ baptizes with God's Holy Spirit, Mt 3; Mk 1; Lk 3; Jn 1; Ac 1-2; Ac 10-11. The one baptism is also described in Scriptures such as Mk 10; 1Co 12, a spiritual baptism that we must also spiriutally drink if we want to be saved. Did you spiritually drink your one baptism? Did you receive your spiritual baptism from the Lord Jesus Christ Himself? When you were baptized did you receive Power from God that included Wisdom from God, Righteousness from God, Holiness from God and Redemption from God, 1Co 1? This is the only baptism we must have or we are not saved. If you didn't receive this baptism, then you did not enter through the narrow gate and you remain in your sins under the Law of Sin and Death, Ro 1-8. If you didn't receive this baptism, you will never understand the Scriptures, Jn 9; 1Pe 2:6-8. However, there will be no excuses because we were all given a very simple little command in Mt 6:33a.

You say you found but are you sure?

anne robare

L P said...

Anne,

Let us start with this question, do you believe the commandments of God are doable?

I checked my GNT on Eph 2:8. You are wrong, the translation of "xariti" which has its root in "xaris" is correct, it is correctly translated "by grace", instrumental dative.

So your premise is broken so I believe all the rest of your theology will be shaky.

I gather you belive you are saved by works that lead to eternal life, is this correct?

There is no such works that lead to eternal life, because if there is such a work, Jesus did not have to go to the Cross on your behalf.

You mentioned Mt 6:33a, but each time you sin, in word, thought and deed and non-deed you break this injunction of Jesus. So where to for you?

Jesus commanded his disciples to baptize in water in Mt 28:18-20, that is the one baptism for the forgiveness of sins that I refer to.

LPC

Anonymous said...

anne's reply to LPC:

You asked if God's commands are "doable"? In Mt 19:26b, He said, "... but with God all things are possible!" You have no Faith, as God defines Faith, and so you do not even understand His Scriptures. If our Righteousness does not exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees, we will never make it into God's Kingdom, Mt 5. How is this accomplished?

Chariti and charis are not the same words and these words, along with charitos and charin, are often badly translated into a variety of various unrelated words, including "grace". Will true Christians, who are always taught by God, stumble on these poorly translated Scriptures? No, but false Christians have and they always will, 1Pe 2:6-8. Only charis should have been translated into Grace. In fact, you are clueless as to what God's Grace really is or what i wrote about these words would make perfect sense to you. The Holy Bible translators are men and they cannot be fully trusted. They don't even realize that Mt 5:3 should be IN THE SPIRIT! Check your GNT on that fact!

So, no "premise is broken" except yours because you don't even realize that what i declare isn't "my theology"! All true Christians will declare WHY JESUS CHRIST IS THE LORD as i have been doing right in front of your face but you have not even noticed. Anyone can say the mere words that Jesus is Lord but not WHY HE IS THE LORD. No one can do that unless he or she is a true Christian, 1Co 12:3.

Why don't you get a concordance and see what was written about works in the entire NT? Don't trust the definitions in those concordances and don't even fully trust anything else. For one example, most of them will say charin is only in the NT less than 20 times but the fact is that it is in the NT 50 times, give or take once or twice depending on which Greek translation is being used. Charis is in the NT about 60 times but what do they claim? Now these are clear undisputable numbers and do you think they have the rest right? Think again! And, how they match English and Greek words is not reliable either. But, do use a concordance for the word "work" and its variations and tell me what you find.

Certain works lead to eternal death and the Work that God gives us to do as His workmanship in Jesus Christ, we must do because, as Paul knew and James knew and all true Christians will know: FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD! But what kind of works? Until you understand the Law of Sin and Death and the Law of the Spirit of Life, you will remain clueless, Ro 1-8. Jesus Christ's perfect sacrifice on the cross will never help you if you ignore or reject Mt 6:33a; Ro 1:16-25. Until you obey Mt 6:33a; Ro 1:16-25, you will remain clueless.

About Mt 6:33a. What you false Christians fail to realize is that true Christians do not continue in deliberate sins, Heb 6; Heb 10; 1Jn 3-5. You have never obeyed Mt 6:33a and that is so obvious. Unless you follow Pauls' example in Php 3, start over and begin where we were all told to begin, then you will never understand the Scriptures but you will not be excused either, 1Pe 2:6-8. "First" means first and that command is where we must all begin.

Mt 28? Where do you see the word "water" in Mt 28? You don't because it isn't about physical water although it is about Living Water, the Water of Life, Rev 21-22. It is about being baptized into and with THE NAME! Peter described it very well in 1Pe 1-3 and so did James in Jas 1 and Paul did too, especially in 1Co 6. The very basics of Salvation involve God's Gospel Truth about Baptisms and Righteousness and you don't know a thing about either one, Heb 5-6.

L P said...

Anne,

I wonder why you criticize the RC church when in fact your doctrine is like theirs.

re:Works
I do not deny the reality of works, they are the fruit of faith but they are not the basis of our salvation.

See John 6:29.

So I am curious. You keep on claiming the translators are wrong as if there is a conspiracy to purposely mistranslate Eph 2:8-9.

xariti is dative of xaris, So I disagree with you that they mistranslated this. So how should it be translated?

If you are saved by works even if that is the work of God - you make Jesus' sacrifice on the cross of no value and no effect.

Gal 3:10
Demons also call Jesus as Lord.

Then also your concept of sin, do you mean to say that you go through a day without sinning against God in your word, thought or deed?



LPC

Anonymous said...

To LPC,

You wrote: Anne, I wonder why you criticize the RC church when in fact your doctrine is like theirs.
anne: My "doctrine is like theirs"?! No, i do not follow anyone who has blood on their hands for mutilating people, for murdering people in horrific ways, who protect filthy pedophiles, who send people to the Lake of Fire with their false gospel. What Jesus Christ told the unbelieving Jews in Mt 23 applies to all who have followed in their footsteps. You, like them, are guilty of all of the sins of your "fathers". However, are you the only ones that are false? No, you just belong to the Jezebel who has lots of "lovers" and "children", all doomed along with you if you continue as is, Rev 2.

You wrote: re: Works I do not deny the reality of works, they are the fruit of faith but they are not the basis of our salvation.
anne: Correct for once. However, until you seek first and find the Righteousness in the Gospel, etc, you will never fully understand the Scriptures and you will be judged on your own words and works. Like the unbelieving Jews, you have rejected the Righteousness from God and sought to establish your own, Ro 10. This is also a frequent teaching from Augustin and for good reason because we are declaring the very same exact original Gospel Truth.

You wrote: See John 6:29.
anne: So, seek first and believe what we were told to believe in Mt 6:33a; Ro 1:16-25!

You wrote: So I am curious. You keep on claiming the translators are wrong as if there is a conspiracy to purposely mistranslate Eph 2:8-9.
anne: I have told many publishers what God's Gospel Truth is regarding those 4 Greek words but they don't want to hear it. You aren't paying close attention either. True Christians will not stumble on the Scriptures but you false Christians will and have.

You wrote: xariti is dative of xaris, So I disagree with you that they mistranslated this. So how should it be translated?
anne: Charis is Grace, only and always. Until you seek first, according to Mt 6:33a; Ro 1:16-25, you will never understand charin, charis, chariti and charitos. And, wonder why Augustin often used the word "charity"! He knew what chariti and charitos are but you do not.

You wrote: If you are saved by works even if that is the work of God - you make Jesus' sacrifice on the cross of no value and no effect.
anne: You are the one who depends on works of the flesh with your baptism for the flesh given by the hands of flesh, not i, Ro 8:5-8. Jesus Christ's sacrifice will not ever help you until you obey Mt 6:33a; Ro 1:16-25.

You wrote: Gal 3:10 Demons also call Jesus as Lord.
anne: Demons do not declare WHY JESUS CHRIST IS THE LORD so those who listen will be saved. Only true Christians declare WHY JESUS CHRIST IS THE LORD AND YOU HAVE SEEN IT, 1Co 12:3. And, speaking of demons, read 1Ti 4 and see what is crawling with demons, exactly as Paul prophesied. Who do you think is described in the first few verses?

You wrote: Then also your concept of sin, do you mean to say that you go through a day without sinning against God in your word, thought or deed?
anne: Read what Augustin said about sin in "On the Creed", the shorter version. We agree. Read Jn 5; Jn 8; Heb 10; 1Jn 1-5 about sin. The real Son of God said, SIN NO MORE! You need to start listening to Him instead of men. Read Jer 17:5-13 about those who listen to men and women, no matter who they only think they are. That curse remains until Rev 22 and you have it until you begin with Mt 6:33a; Ro 1:16-25.

L P said...

Anne,

You may not follow RC but your doctrine is just like theirs. You are a pelagian, if not a semi-pelagian.

My righteousness is not my own but a free gift as per Phil 3:9.

I laugh a bit when you mentioned Augustine - He did not have the Greek Bible, he was doing his theology from the Latin translation of Jerome. He did not get it all right, and yet you claim I follow men, and you don't? That is hypocrisy.

You do not know the use of Greek, xariti is dative of grace, that is why in Eph 2:8-9, it is translated "by grace".

The publishers won't hear you because you show them you cannot be taken seriously. You are exercising zeal but you are no showing them knowledge. NOw that they disagree with you - they are doomed and you are the only one saved. That is a arrogant and sinful.

Jesus Christ's sacrifice will not ever help you until you obey Mt 6:33a; Ro 1:16-25.

Jesus sacrifice happened on the Cross 2000 years ago without me being born, before I could repent and before I could believe. You are turing what Jesus did on the Cross to a form of merit on our part. It was a free gift to sinners like me and in fact it is to sinners like you as well.

Demons believe and do declare and even call Jesus Lord and they shudder.

We agree. Read Jn 5; Jn 8; Heb 10; 1Jn 1-5 about sin. The real Son of God said, SIN NO MORE!

So you do not sin anymore eyh?

You mentioned 1 Jn in the above but you stopped in 1 Jn 1:8. You should have read this further and should have taken this seriously.

The truth is not in those who say they do not sin anymore, they are deceived, this means - you.

You should repent of your belief that you can do what God commands. Because if you could, then Jesus should not have died for you but he did proving you could not fulfill what God and what he demands.

LPC

Anonymous said...

To LPC, part 1 of 2:

You wrote: Anne, You may not follow RC but your doctrine is just like theirs. You are a pelagian, if not a semi-pelagian.
anne: Wrong. I am a true Christian, taught by God as all true Christians are. Like all other true Christians, i have been baptized by the real Lord Jesus Christ Himself. True Christians belong to His spiritual one Body and all that nonsense you are interested in is the foolishness that God said He would destroy along with those who love it.

You wrote: My righteousness is not my own but a free gift as per Phil 3:9.
anne: Wrong. God's Gift is only given to true Christians who have obeyed Mt 6:33a; Ro 1-6. You haven't obeyed and it shows. Therefore, you have not received the Gift of Righteousness that is revealed in the Gospel, Ro 1.

You wrote: I laugh a bit when you mentioned Augustine - He did not have the Greek Bible, he was doing his theology from the Latin translation of Jerome. He did not get it all right, and yet you claim I follow men, and you don't? That is hypocrisy.
anne: Wrong. What i learned, i learned years before i read what Augustin wrote. I do not follow men. And, Augustin had a Greek Bible. He got it right because, like all other true Christians, he was also taught by God.

You wrote: You do not know the use of Greek, xariti is dative of grace, that is why in Eph 2:8-9, it is translated "by grace".
anne: Wrong. I know what charis, charin, chariti and charitos really mean because i have the Greatest Teacher there is and ever will be. I will give you one other example since you will never understand these 4 words until you trash the false gospel and start over where we must begin. Let's look at the word that is always translated as "beheaded" in Rev 20:4. If this is correct then Peter, who was not beheaded, or John, who was not beheaded, won't be there! So, this is a false translation. What is that word supposed to be? " And I saw thrones and they sat upon them and judgment was given unto them. And I saw the souls of them that had SURVIVED THE PRUNING AXE for the Testimony of Jesus and for the Word of God and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." What is this about? Jn 15:1-17. True Christians are not cut off from the True Vine with the pruning axe. False Christians, like you, are cut off and you will be thrown into the fire.

You wrote: The publishers won't hear you because you show them you cannot be taken seriously. You are exercising zeal but you are no showing them knowledge. NOw that they disagree with you - they are doomed and you are the only one saved. That is a arrogant and sinful.
anne: Wrong. The publishers were doomed long before i ever contacted them for following false gospels. If they were really saved, they would know what i know because all true Christians have the very same Teacher. The real Lord Jesus Christ said only a few will be saved and if you deny it, then you have called Him a liar, Mt 7; Mt 22.

Anonymous said...

To LPC, part 2 of 2

Here you quote from my (anne's) previous post: Jesus Christ's sacrifice will not ever help you until you obey Mt 6:33a; Ro 1:16-25.

You wrote: Jesus sacrifice happened on the Cross 2000 years ago without me being born, before I could repent and before I could believe. You are turing what Jesus did on the Cross to a form of merit on our part. It was a free gift to sinners like me and in fact it is to sinners like you as well.
anne: Wrong. You can never benefit from Jesus Christ's perfect sacrifice on the cross until you seek first as He clearly commanded us all to do.

You wrote: Demons believe and do declare and even call Jesus Lord and they shudder.
anne: So should you shudder because you will go where they are going unless you trash the false gospel and begin where we were all told to begin.

You wrote: We agree. Read Jn 5; Jn 8; Heb 10; 1Jn 1-5 about sin. The real Son of God said, SIN NO MORE! So you do not sin anymore eyh?
anne: I also told you to read "On the Creed" because Augustin explains it very well and i agree with him. And, what was that he wrote about the mark of the beast when he was writing about the heretics' baptism that will eternally condemn them?

You wrote: You mentioned 1 Jn in the above but you stopped in 1 Jn 1:8. You should have read this further and should have taken this seriously.
anne: Wrong. I did not stop at 1Jn 1:8.

You wrote: The truth is not in those who say they do not sin anymore, they are deceived, this means - you.
anne: Wrong. I told you to read "On the Creed".

You wrote: You should repent of your belief that you can do what God commands. Because if you could, then Jesus should not have died for you but he did proving you could not fulfill what God and what he demands.
anne: You are clueless as to God's exact original Gospel Truth and it shows. According to Paul, true Christians only need to warn unbelievers twice and i have been much more generous than that but you aren't listening. If you insist on going to the Lake of Fire, no one will stop you. If you don't listen, then i am running out of time to waste on you.

L P said...

Anne,

The pattern of heretics is that they are the only one that is right and all else is wrong.

You keep on mentioning Augustine, yet you are pelagian.

So as per 1John 1:8 you have no answer to this.
You keep on saying read on the creed, before we go there let us first go to Scripture. Augustine's writing though respectable are not Scripture.

Stop your delution, you are just as sinful as we are that is why you need the Gospel of the forgiveness of sins, if you try to earn it you are putting yourself under the curse.

LPC

Anonymous said...

John 8:47. He that is of God heareth the Words of God. For this cause ye hear them not: because ye are not of God.

Too bad but it is your choice to make.

L P said...

anne,

I pray for you.

If you studied Greek, then you would know that the word heretic comes from the Greek translated schismatic, i.e., someone who promotes schisms.

Notice what you have just done, you for example have pooh poohed my baptism. Precisely what the Nicene Creed does not do, instead it recognizes baptism as one. That is an example of a heresy, mainly it is exemplified by saying we are saved by our works. This is what you are saying, you are saved by your baptism which is a work different from mine. I am not saved by my baptism but you are saved by yours.

Did you notice? You are saying man is saved by works only that work is the work you are under, not the work of Christ at the Cross. Clearly that is not sufficient in your doctrine. Yet Jesus said, it is finished.

LPC

Anonymous said...

To LPC,

I don't need to study Greek because the real Lord Jesus Christ knows it better than anyone and He teaches all true Christians as all true Christians will declare, Jn 6:45. Most of the NT is translated very well but now and then, especially with the word "Grace", there are problems. Not problems for those of us who have been taught by God but problems for you who have not as Peter wrote, 1Pe 2:6-8.

I have pooh, poohed your baptism? There is only one legitimate Baptism and the real Lord Jesus Christ must give it. You do not have His one and only saving Baptism and it is so obvious. Augustin said you carnal baptizers are heretics and your baptism is your condemnation, not your crown. I declared the same Gospel Truth years before i read what Augustin wrote but we agree because both of us have the Greatest Teacher in the universe.

You are clueless as to what i have said about works because your carnal baptism has left you with a carnal mind that can never please God. It is you who is among the dividers who has been baptized in the flesh by the hands of flesh. You have trusted in a work of the flesh, not i.

If you haven't been spiritually baptized by the real Lord Jesus Christ Himself, you cannot be saved, ever. Just as you do not understand baptisms, you are clueless about works. You never began where we were all told to begin, in Mt 6:33a. Until you trash the lies and start over as a baby on milk, you will never understand but you will not be excused either for having a hard heart and a stiff neck.

anne

Anonymous said...

To LPC,

Oh, one more thing. The prayers of heretics are rejected by God. anne

L P said...

Anne,

How do you know it was Jesus who baptized you and my baptism is not of Jesus.

You keep on claiming that Jesus baptised you and Jesus did not baptise me.

Why? Did Jesus come down from heaven to physically baptise you? Just be sure that what you claim is not a making of your own imagination, for once again, that is deluding yourself.

Augustine believed in baptismal regeneration and believed in baptising infants do you?

Augustine believed in original sin, do you?

Too bad, God does not hear the prayer of a sinner like me. But it is too bad for you because I prayed for you to come to the truth and stop deluding yourself. So I guess that God will not answer that prayer and will leave you in your delusion.

LPC

Anonymous said...

To LPC,

You still don't understand? Your "baptism is not of Jesus" because you do not have "the Mind of Christ" and it is so obvious, 1Co 2. The real Lord Jesus Christ said, "Everyone that is of the Truth heareth My Voice," Jn 18. You have not but i have.

The real Lord Jesus Christ does not physically baptize anyone and i have already made that very clear. It is you who is in the delusion.

Augustin, like all other true Christians, claimed that he was spiritually baptized by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, as i was. Augustin believed in spiritual baptisms for spiritual infants. Just as you do not understand the Scriptures, so you will not understand Augustin.

Augustin believed what Paul wrote about the first Adam in Ro 6; 1Co 15. So do i.

Read 1Jn 3-5 about sinners and who they belong to. True Christians do not continue in deliberate sins, Heb 10.

Your prayers are not heard because you hate God's Light and you are not walking in His Truth. Since you think you know it all, i will leave you in your delusion.

anne

L P said...

Anne,

re: Baptism when you say the real Lord Jesus does not baptize anyone.

Rom 6:3 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Looks like every where you turn the Scripture contradicts you.

Another you said...
Since you think you know it all, i will leave you in your delusion

To the contrary you are the one who acts as if you know it all such that you claim my rejection of your teaching is tantamount to my rejection of Christ.

Since you claim to be a True Christian and since you say that True Christians do not go on deliberate sin, then now you are saying you sin too, only that it is not deliberate.

So deliberate sins lead to death but non deliberate sins, which you commit, does not?

All sins are deliberate as far as I know so I hope you give an example of a sin that is not deliberate.

The Ten Commandments does not say " Thou shalt not deliberately bear false witness". There are no such wordings.

If you read the Bible with Law and Gospel in mind, you will understand what I say.

LPC