tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post7273515100354202456..comments2024-02-27T00:11:57.219+11:00Comments on Extra Nos: Outward sign of inward reality - jiveLPChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-88610865410078766772009-10-29T09:40:03.744+11:002009-10-29T09:40:03.744+11:00Haha, y'all are the best :^)Haha, y'all are the best :^)joel in ganoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-73066086661420929092009-10-28T09:21:30.576+11:002009-10-28T09:21:30.576+11:00Xan,
John H gave a good reminder from the Small C...Xan,<br /><br />John H gave a good reminder from the Small Cat, which is refreshing for me, cause sometimes I forget what it says there.<br /><br />When proving the point to a babtsik, you need Scripture.<br /><br />LPCLPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-68924559516282829842009-10-28T09:18:56.668+11:002009-10-28T09:18:56.668+11:00Joel,
Thanks bro.
*baptizand* Southron style sou...Joel,<br /><br />Thanks bro.<br /><br />*baptizand* Southron style sounded ok to me, I tried pronouncing it LOL<br /><br />LPCLPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-77141723607989546702009-10-28T03:22:42.774+11:002009-10-28T03:22:42.774+11:00All,
John H today posted a fine post on the Luthe...All,<br /><br />John H today posted a fine post on the Lutheran view of this topic here:<br />http://www.confessingevangelical.com/?p=2329<br /><br />Joel,<br /><br />+1 for the Southron pronunciation of "baptizand" (or anything else!).Xannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-49180312227052693492009-10-28T00:17:22.864+11:002009-10-28T00:17:22.864+11:00LP,
you are on a roll lately, aren't you? Ve...LP, <br /><br />you are on a roll lately, aren't you? Very good posts and very timely since a Baptist friend and I have been discussing the very same issues. <br /><br />Btw, in an unabridged dictionary I spotted a deliciously pedantic word for "baptizee", viz., "baptizand". I didn't bother to check where the accent is supposed to go, so I've been pronouncing it Southron style, primary stress on the first syllable and secondary stress on the last.joel in ganoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-14462665234113801612009-10-27T09:13:12.918+11:002009-10-27T09:13:12.918+11:00Xan,
Absolutely.
A gift has been given, as to wh...Xan,<br /><br />Absolutely.<br /><br />A gift has been given, as to what the person does with it, is another matter. The acknowledging of the gift is what I believe the Lutherans are on about.<br /><br />The gift itself is wrapped and woofed into baptism the forgiveness of sins because that is linked to the Cross.<br /><br />If baptism is an outward sign of an inward reality, how do you know if you have the reality - that is my counter argument to the baptistic view.<br /><br />It has to be incurvatus in se if the baptistic theory is correct.<br /><br /><br />LPCLPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-7771618054493376832009-10-27T02:54:46.839+11:002009-10-27T02:54:46.839+11:00Lito,
Isn't it the Lutheran position that we ...Lito,<br /><br />Isn't it the Lutheran position that we would cast the gift aside if we could? Or are you describing half of the "single predestination" paradox?<br /><br />I do think the Baptist argument about the baptised-but-worldly fellow is at least logical.<br /><br />I prefer to look at it this way: I'm not responsible for what others do after their baptisms. And I'm <i>certainly</i> not in a position to bring my own logic and philosophy to the table in order to determine what the meaning of baptism is. (That would be making logic my assurance, and therefore my god.) <br /><br />A promise has been made, and that's something I can (and need to) latch onto. Whatever else falls where it may.Xannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-756698924417446302009-10-26T09:50:10.993+11:002009-10-26T09:50:10.993+11:00Larry,
Sorry for this late reply.
The truth is w...Larry,<br /><br />Sorry for this late reply.<br /><br />The truth is what you speak, the fact that baptistic groups deny baptism efficacy is really a misunderstanding of the free Gospel of God.<br /><br />Also, once again, the reasoning is governed not by what the Word simply is saying, but what the rational mind can understand.<br /><br />So they see nothing happens to the baby who got baptized and even may be the baby grew up to be an adult which is known for its rampant worldliness, so they say nothing has happened nor has been given. This is even faulty logic, for something could have happened but the gift could have been cast aside.<br /><br />I saw Calvin reasoning this way too.<br /><br />LPCLPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-92141757191973454862009-10-24T02:22:10.515+11:002009-10-24T02:22:10.515+11:00Hey Steve, LP,
It's Larry. Yea Steve I was j...Hey Steve, LP,<br /><br />It's Larry. Yea Steve I was just surveying the commentary opposed generally to that post. It donned on me what Luther said once of infant baptism showing forth most plainly the Gospel...and hence the Cross...and hence the tripping stone and offense thereof the Cross.<br /><br />A baby's baptism does indeed so purely proclaim the Gospel that the old Adam religions cannot but help stamp its light out. Anytime the Gospel seems to light up the "room" the darkness goes to stamping it out with fury. Like the mythical vampires who hate the sun light so much when a crack of it comes in they block it immediately, stamp it out, flee it.<br /><br />Whether it comes via the witness and proclamation of Chloe's baptism in specific, or my kids or other's children, or infants broadly speaking or now adults so baptized in infancy, or in the Lord's Supper, or when Luther shown the Gospel more brilliantly than anyone since the Apostle Paul, or even Paul Himself, not to mention Christ Himself - where ever the Gospel light really begins to shine, the darkness rushes over like a vampire to immediately viciously stamp it out.<br /><br />The more the baptist raged against it in your post, with LP's comments, Patrick, mine and other Lutherans the more I was encouraged by it. Because that is the way the Gospel is treated. They won't attack the Gospel labeled with the letters "the Gospel" they attack what it is by other names per se. So that when the Gospel is baptism and the sacrament as Luther stated but perhaps called the Lord's Supper they attack it. Because the freeness and giving from God to us -ness of it, its light, simply cannot be tolerated. And also they deny that one name baptism or the Lord's Supper as "Gospel", which it is, lest they be seen as denying the "Gospel" so explicitly stated. They don't want to be heard as saying, "the Gospel doesn't save", yet they are fine in saying "baptism doesn't save (contra Peter)". Yet baptism has and is the Gospel. <br /><br />So when they hide behind word games and say "baptism doesn't save", when the mask is pulled off what they are really saying that they'd deny if pointed out is, "the Gospel doesn't save".<br /><br />And LP nailed it on the gnostic thing, it goes right to very subtly turning away from the Word via a spiritualistic interpretation. Luther was right in seeing, so very keenly, that the real issue with the real body and blood of the LS, if interpreted metaphorically or symbolic, ultimately destroys the ENTIRE Word of God. Think about that for a minute, if THAT is symbolic or metaphorical, then nothing is firm in the Word at all. And you see it in baptistic interpretations of clear baptism passages as meaing "dry" or "spiritual" baptism like Acts 2. Spiritualizing or symbolizing it makes uncertain as opposed to an objective concrete real promised given to us on us in Baptism. Because one then must go INWARD as Lito points out, the gnosticism, which is away from the objective Word to KNOW if "I'm saved/elect, etc..." Luther was as right as rain on that issue.<br /><br />LAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-90721702437317431862009-10-22T16:57:44.317+11:002009-10-22T16:57:44.317+11:00"The babtsiks there just cannot go pass their..."The babtsiks there just cannot go pass their gnostic paradigm."<br /><br />It is incredible how dense they can be!<br /><br />You can say it a million times that God is the One who does the baptizing...that it is His work...and they'll still say stuff like, "you are adding a work to the work on the cross"...or other such nonsense.<br /><br />Oh well...we can't make them believe it.<br /><br />But we ought to keep proclaiming it.<br /><br />Thanks for a great post, LPC!Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14503074923110839149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-2154972944706098102009-10-22T15:56:09.235+11:002009-10-22T15:56:09.235+11:00SM,
There is a lot of excitement going on your p...SM,<br /><br />There is a lot of excitement going on your post simply because you shared Chloe's baptism.<br /><br />The babtsiks there just cannot go pass their gnostic paradigm.<br /><br />LPCLPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-32685555661908268852009-10-22T11:14:16.178+11:002009-10-22T11:14:16.178+11:00Well said, LPC!
Yes! The baptism IS the repentan...Well said, LPC!<br /><br />Yes! The baptism IS the repentance.<br /><br />The Lord gives what He commands!<br /><br />You want to watch the fur fly?<br /><br />Bring up baptism to the sectarians.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14503074923110839149noreply@blogger.com