tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post5699305723490268672..comments2024-02-27T00:11:57.219+11:00Comments on Extra Nos: Re-hearing Law and GospelLPChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comBlogger83125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-78341222025793661692021-12-23T11:39:27.371+11:002021-12-23T11:39:27.371+11:00Hello Lito!
Thank you very much for your response...Hello Lito!<br /><br />Thank you very much for your response!<br /><br />I repeat:<br /><br />You said about the poison of Walther in other areas, areas like their ideas of Church and Ministry and Church Fellowship in following response to me (https://extranos.blogspot.com/2010/11/re-hearing-law-and-gospel.html?showComment=1621771989081&m=1#c7955677303969474582):<br /><br />"Lasttly, there are Lutherans who reject Waltherian UOJ/OJ and even affirm intuitu fidei (in view of faith), but they can still be infected with the poison of Walther in other areas, areas like their ideas of Church and Ministry and Church Fellowship. A little leaven affects the whole lump. Some IMHO really need to be exorcised of any Waltherian influence because Walther was a splitter of the church united and harmonious. Before Walther came, there was no controversy with the Lutheran ideas of In View of Faith - they never taught UOJ/OJ."<br /><br />Lito, <br /><br />Please also answer the following questions:<br /><br />What are the pages of the Book of Concord that teaches about Church and Ministry?<br /><br />What are the pages of the Book of Concord that teaches about Justification?Jorge Luishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923367534285775912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-51827518294852679272021-12-23T10:34:38.827+11:002021-12-23T10:34:38.827+11:00Jorge,
The Book of Concord is the basis of unity ...Jorge,<br /><br />The Book of Concord is the basis of unity but I have found so-called "confessional Lutherans" want to add more to it. For example, the synods added Walther's view of church and ministry and so consequently, you have two pastors - one from LCMS and one from WELS who would not pray together. Also, these teach that when you participate in the Lord's Supper with another group then by default you are adhering to the other group's doctrine. This is called false dichotomy fallacy. Going to communion does not mean you are endorsing every position that church body is teaching.<br /><br />LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887169410291453228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-91743060947772470182021-12-16T15:35:15.067+11:002021-12-16T15:35:15.067+11:00Hello Lito!
You said about the poison of Walther ...Hello Lito!<br /><br />You said about the poison of Walther in other areas, areas like their ideas of Church and Ministry and Church Fellowship in following response to me (https://extranos.blogspot.com/2010/11/re-hearing-law-and-gospel.html?showComment=1621771989081&m=1#c7955677303969474582):<br /><br />"Lasttly, there are Lutherans who reject Waltherian UOJ/OJ and even affirm intuitu fidei (in view of faith), but they can still be infected with the poison of Walther in other areas, areas like their ideas of Church and Ministry and Church Fellowship. A little leaven affects the whole lump. Some IMHO really need to be exorcised of any Waltherian influence because Walther was a splitter of the church united and harmonious. Before Walther came, there was no controversy with the Lutheran ideas of In View of Faith - they never taught UOJ/OJ."<br /><br />Lito, <br /><br />Is there lutheran books that shows the differences between the doctrinal position of the lutheran church united and harmonious about Justification, Church and Ministry and Church Fellowship and the poison of Walther in various areas, areas like their ideas of Objective Justification, Church and Ministry and Church Fellowship?Jorge Luishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923367534285775912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-47171019666640705522021-11-02T23:03:00.204+11:002021-11-02T23:03:00.204+11:00Hello Lito "LPC"!
Thank you for your re...Hello Lito "LPC"!<br /><br />Thank you for your response!Jorge Luishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923367534285775912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-4615843461407198702021-11-02T16:45:37.986+11:002021-11-02T16:45:37.986+11:00Re; your question to Rev Jackson. He was refering ...Re; your question to Rev Jackson. He was refering to this book... https://www.amazon.com.au/Theses-Opposed-Huberianism-Lutheran-Justification/dp/1475186541LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887169410291453228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-82241193376135742232021-11-01T09:05:49.696+11:002021-11-01T09:05:49.696+11:00Hello Lito "LPC"!
You said in following...Hello Lito "LPC"!<br /><br />You said in following response to me that you wrote above:<br /><br />"Please contact Jake Z. He knows more about that for Lutherans in Australia."<br /><br />Lito "LPC",<br /><br />What is the meaning of acronym "Jake Z"?Jorge Luishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923367534285775912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-4054931964071128772021-11-01T05:12:55.090+11:002021-11-01T05:12:55.090+11:00In the USA the synods that follow Walther are the ...In the USA the synods that follow Walther are the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, Wisconsin Evangrlucal Lutheran Synod, Evangelical Lutheran Synod, Church of the Lutheran Confession.<br /><br />I suspect but have not verified the Lutheran Brethren do not follow Walther in his UOJ.<br /><br />Within the Lutheran Church of Australia I have met those who follow Walther and those who reject him. Sorry I cannot name these pastors for you for privacy reasons.<br /><br />Please contact Jake Z. He knows more about that for Lutherans in Australia.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887169410291453228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-86266293583089437962021-11-01T03:43:28.965+11:002021-11-01T03:43:28.965+11:00Hello Lito "LPC"!
Thank you for your re...Hello Lito "LPC"!<br /><br />Thank you for your response!<br /><br />You said in following response to me that you wrote above that in Australia, there are those who have not heard of UOJ, that those who are fans of C F W Walther follow his teaching internally and that you have met some of them and that you also have met some who flat out reject it:<br /><br />"Hello Jorge,<br />UOJ is only popular in US Lutherans and some parts of the world where C F W Walther has been viewed as a saint but I think a minority outside USA. However, here in Australia, there are those who have not heard of UOJ. Those who are fans of C F W Walther follow his teaching internally and I have met some of them. I also have met some who flat out reject it. The ordinary members do not know of the term at all."<br /><br />Lito "LPC",<br /><br />Please write the meaning of the acronyms if you write acronyms in your response.<br /><br />What are the lutheran churches that currently there are in Australia who have not heard of Universal Objective Justification (UOJ)?<br /><br />What are the lutheran churches that are fans of C F W Walther that follow his teaching internally that you have met some?<br /><br />What are the lutheran churches that you also have met who flat out reject Universal Objective Justification (UOJ)?Jorge Luishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923367534285775912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-28541119402813861582021-11-01T03:09:51.150+11:002021-11-01T03:09:51.150+11:00This comment has been removed by the author.Jorge Luishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923367534285775912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-18132710555747439952021-10-31T20:15:14.550+11:002021-10-31T20:15:14.550+11:00Hello Jorge,
UOJ is only popular in US Lutherans a...Hello Jorge,<br />UOJ is only popular in US Lutherans and some parts of the world where C F W Walther has been viewed as a saint but I think a minority outside USA. However, here in Australia, there are those who have not heard of UOJ. Those who are fans of C F W Walther follow his teaching internally and I have met some of them. I also have met some who flat out reject it. The ordinary members do not know of the term at all.<br /><br />You must understand that those synods in USA which uphold UOJ have their synods traced through Walther. It was Walther who imported this teaching he obtained from Stephan, his bishop when both of them migrated to the States. Thus many synods in USA uphold to UOJ except ELDONA, but I would say ELDONA's rejection of it was fairly recent and can be traced from the influence of Pr Paul Rydecki on the said synod. I would say there are minor synods too that reject UOJ. I have followed some of the teachings of a group called Lutheran Brethren and based on their emphasis on personal conversion, I would be surprized if they helpd to UOJ.<br /><br />You can see from the quote of Luther you cited that Luther did not believe in UOJ. For Luther it seems to me, that no faith in Christ means no justification. There is no pre-justification without faith - countering what UOJ people imagine.<br /><br />Sincerely,<br /><br />Lito<br />LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887169410291453228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-38779921781946303272021-10-30T13:38:09.468+11:002021-10-30T13:38:09.468+11:00This comment has been removed by the author.Jorge Luishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923367534285775912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-50749306702678544872021-10-30T13:37:30.443+11:002021-10-30T13:37:30.443+11:00Lito "LPC",
Please excuse me, there are...Lito "LPC",<br /><br />Please excuse me, there are currently lutheran churches that do not teach Universal Objective Justification (UOJ), for example, the ELDONA, (Evangelical Lutheran Diocese of North America, website: http://eldona.org/).Jorge Luishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923367534285775912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-87376002832989263772021-10-30T13:31:31.734+11:002021-10-30T13:31:31.734+11:00Hello Lito "LPC"!
The following Martin ...Hello Lito "LPC"!<br /><br />The following Martin Luther's Statements on Justification are written in pages 13 and 14 of the book Devotional Readings From Luther’s Works For Every Day of the Year of the Rev. John Sander (https://www.lutheranlibrary.org/249-sander-devotional-readings-luthers-works/):<br /><br />"Ye are all children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. Gal. 3:26.<br /><br />He who is under the law and works unwillingly is a servant. But whosoever<br />has faith and works cheerfully is a child; for he has received the Spirit of<br />God through Christ. Now, the apostle names Christ, referring to the faith<br />that believes and abides in Jesus Christ. No other faith is effective, no other<br />faith is the right faith, let one believe in God as one will. Some there are,<br />particularly among our modern high school men, who say: Forgiveness of<br />sins and justification depend al together on the divine imputation of grace;<br />God’s imputation is sufficient. He to whom God does not reckon sin, is justified; he to whom God reckons sin, is not justified.<br /><br />Were their theory true the entire New Testament would be of no significance. Christ would have labored foolishly and to no purpose in suffering<br />for sin. God would have unnecessarily wrought mere mockery and deception; for he might easily without Christ’s suffering have forgiven sins. Then,<br />too, a faith other than faith in Christ might have justified and saved – a faith<br />relying on God’s gracious mercy not to impute sin. In contrast to this deplorable theory and abominable error, it is the apostle’s practice to speak always of faith in Jesus Christ, and he makes mention of Jesus Christ with a<br />frequency surprising to one unacquainted with the important doctrine of<br />faith in him. Hence our learned university doctors no longer know Christ.<br />They do not recognize the need of him and his benefits, nor understand the<br />character of the gospel and the New Testament. They imagine Christ to be a<br />mere Moses – a teacher who institutes laws and commandments showing<br />how men may be righteous and lead a faultless life. Then they pro ceed with free will and the workings of human nature, designing thereby to fit themselves for grace, and basely storm heaven.<br /><br />Let us guard against the hellish poison of this false doctrine and not lose<br />Christ, the consoling Saviour. Grace is given us gratuitously – without cost<br />to ourselves – and yet the gift to us did cost another much and was obtained<br />with a priceless, an infinite treasure – the Son of God himself. It is<br />supremely essential to possess him who has accomplished the purchase for<br />us. Nor is it possible to obtain grace otherwise than through him."<br /><br />Lito "LPC",<br /><br />I wrote above that it is written in the book Devotional Readings From Luther’s Works For Every Day of the Year of the Rev. John Sander that Martin Luther said that "He to whom God does not reckon sin, is justified; he to whom God reckons sin, is not justified."<br /><br />Why the lutheran churches that currently there are do not teach that he to whom God does not reckon sin, is justified?<br /><br />Why the lutheran churches that currently there are do not teach that he to whom God reckons sin, is not justified?<br /><br />Why the lutheran churches that currently there are teach Universal Objective Justification (UOJ)?Jorge Luishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923367534285775912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-10471271546486762042021-10-15T13:05:37.842+11:002021-10-15T13:05:37.842+11:00Hello Lito "LPC"!
I sent the following ...Hello Lito "LPC"!<br /><br />I sent the following email to pastor Gregory Jackson:<br /><br />"Hello pastor Gregory Jackson!<br /><br />It is written in following link of Ichabod (http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2017/03/mystery-solved-how-eldona-magically.html?m=1):<br /><br />"I was often in contact with Rydecki, who eventually had a book to publish. That was another interesting connection. Someone found these Latin sources, Hunnius, dealing with justification. I passed them onto Rydecki, and another friend donated money for him to buy a new version of MS Office."<br /><br />"The last ELDONA conference had the gang complaining about me all the time, sounding like pre-schoolers who needed a nap, a snack, or both. One interesting whine was this, "Rydecki works with people. Jackson does not." That is pretty hilarious, given the help and support our congregation gave Rydecki when Jon-Boy Buchholz was excommunicating him and foreclosing the congregation's mortgage. I wonder, "Did Rydecki tell the brethren about<br /><br />The free books I sent him?<br />The original link to Hunnius?<br />The gift of MS Office?<br />The promotion of translations and the ELDONA theses?"<br />Pastor Gregory Jackson,<br /><br />What are the Latin sources, Hunnius, dealing with justification?<br /><br />What is the original link to Hunnius?"<br /><br />Lito "LPC",<br /><br />I don't know if Pastor Gregory Jackson will respond to my message I wrote above.<br /><br />Please ask to Pastor Gregory Jackson to answer to my message I wrote above.Jorge Luishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923367534285775912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-34104781387834320312021-10-04T15:59:54.077+11:002021-10-04T15:59:54.077+11:00Hello Lito "LPC"!
I am interested in yo...Hello Lito "LPC"!<br /><br />I am interested in your online Bible Study each Monday 8PM AEST.<br /><br />What is your email?Jorge Luishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923367534285775912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-9786720148553176502021-10-04T14:35:05.667+11:002021-10-04T14:35:05.667+11:00Dear Jorge,
I conduct an online Bible Study each ...Dear Jorge,<br /><br />I conduct an online Bible Study each Monday 8PM AEST.<br /><br />If you are interested let me know and I can email you the zoom link.<br /><br />LPCLPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887169410291453228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-63387868736136067992021-05-24T12:46:48.563+10:002021-05-24T12:46:48.563+10:00Hello Lito "LPC"!
Thank you for your re...Hello Lito "LPC"!<br /><br />Thank you for your response!Jorge Luishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923367534285775912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-3986691798203226172021-05-24T12:43:04.990+10:002021-05-24T12:43:04.990+10:00Hello Jorge,
This is the one https://www.calvaryl...Hello Jorge,<br /><br />This is the one https://www.calvarylutheranmv.org.au/<br />I only go when time permits me.<br />LC Au - is Lutheran Church of Australia. It is the major Lutheran Synod here in Australia.<br /><br /><br />https://www.lca.org.au/.<br /><br />May God lead you where you should go. But where ever it might be, it won't be the way we want it to be.<br /><br />LPCLPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887169410291453228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-12776295626196705122021-05-24T09:31:01.694+10:002021-05-24T09:31:01.694+10:00Hello Lito "LPC"!
Maybe the following w...Hello Lito "LPC"!<br /><br />Maybe the following website is the website of the Calvary Lutheran Church which is a part of LC Au (https://www.calvarylutheranmv.org.au/).<br /><br />Does the website I quoted above is the website of the Calvary Lutheran Church which is a part of LC Au?<br /><br />Please excuse me for the questions.<br /><br />I asked because I don't know how to research.Jorge Luishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923367534285775912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-32326227062002860772021-05-24T09:12:40.622+10:002021-05-24T09:12:40.622+10:00Hello Lito "LPC"!
Thank you for your re...Hello Lito "LPC"!<br /><br />Thank you for your response!<br /><br />You wrote above the following response:<br /><br />"I am not currently pastoring any Lutheran congregation.<br />I was a pastor of a couple of charimastic churches until 2004.<br />I am in the books as member of Calvary Lutheran Church here which is a part of LC Au but I do not come regularly due to family duties.<br /><br />I prefer to pastor my family.<br />But I do conduct an online Bible study each Monday night Au Eastern Standard Time.<br /><br />God bless,<br /><br />LPC"<br /><br />Lito "LPC",<br /><br />You wrote LC Au in the phrase "I am in the books as member of Calvary Lutheran Church here which is a part of LC Au but I do not come regularly due to family duties." that you wrote above.<br /><br />What is LC Au?<br /><br />What is the website of the Calvary Lutheran Church which is a part of LC Au?Jorge Luishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923367534285775912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-17958637556913878702021-05-24T08:24:19.549+10:002021-05-24T08:24:19.549+10:00I am not currently pastoring any Lutheran congrega...I am not currently pastoring any Lutheran congregation.<br />I was a pastor of a couple of charimastic churches until 2004.<br />I am in the books as member of Calvary Lutheran Church here which is a part of LC Au but I do not come regularly due to family duties. <br /><br />I prefer to pastor my family.<br />But I do conduct an online Bible study each Monday night Au Eastern Standard Time.<br /><br />God bless,<br /><br />LPCLPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887169410291453228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-47598603595956122582021-05-24T00:13:14.943+10:002021-05-24T00:13:14.943+10:00Hello Lito "LPC"!
Thank you for your re...Hello Lito "LPC"!<br /><br />Thank you for your response!<br /><br />Are you a Lutheran pastor?<br /><br />If yes, are you pastor of which Lutheran church?<br /><br />If not, are you a member of which Lutheran church?Jorge Luishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923367534285775912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-79556773039694745822021-05-23T22:13:09.081+10:002021-05-23T22:13:09.081+10:00Hi Jorge,
I am familiar with COELC, one of their ...Hi Jorge,<br /><br />I am familiar with COELC, one of their founders hail from AU. I was approached by them before, but I am not interested in joining any mega or micro synods.<br /><br />With regards to the "onto faith" vs "in view of faith", IMHO, they try to be a via media between the two and so they reject both. I think the have a mongrel position, just my opinion.<br /><br />I am not opposed to "in view of faith" in fact, properly understood it is the view of orthodox Lutherans of old like Jacob Andrea as I have read in the treatises opposing Walther's idea of unconditional election which drives you down logically to TULIP.<br /><br />"In view of faith" is defined as "elect in view of Christ's merit apprehended by faith"<br /><br />https://extranos.blogspot.com/2019/03/intuitu-fidei-is-just-alright-with-me.html<br />You can find the reasons why I believe "in view of faith" is compatible with Scripture, by exegesis.<br /><br />Lasttly, there are Lutherans who reject Waltherian UOJ/OJ and even affirm intuitu fidei (in view of faith), but they can still be infected with the poison of Walther in other areas, areas like their ideas of Church and Ministry and Church Fellowship. A little leaven affects the whole lump. Some IMHO really need to be exorcised of any Waltherian influence because Walther was a splitter of the church united and harmonious. Before Walther came, there was no controversy with the Lutheran ideas of In View of Faith - they never taught UOJ/OJ.<br /><br />God bless.<br /><br />LPC<br />LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15887169410291453228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-90116777876678998232021-05-22T19:46:53.068+10:002021-05-22T19:46:53.068+10:00Lito "LPC",
I forgot to speak:
Please ...Lito "LPC",<br /><br />I forgot to speak:<br /><br />Please write the meaning of the acronyms if you write acronyms in your response.Jorge Luishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923367534285775912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-46388306122822385332021-05-22T19:05:53.340+10:002021-05-22T19:05:53.340+10:00Hello Lito "LPC"!
It is written in foll...Hello Lito "LPC"!<br /><br />It is written in following site of the Concordia Lutheran Conference (CLC) about objective justification (https://www.concordialutheranconf.com/2001/01/02/what-is-objective-justification/):<br /><br />"Some Lutheran church bodies, as well as individual Lutheran pastors and professors, reject objective justification and teach only subjective justification. They like to appeal to the Lutheran Confessions to substantiate their anti‑Scriptural position."<br /><br />Lito "LPC",<br /><br />If I am correct, the Lutheran church bodies and the individual Lutheran pastors and professors that reject objective justification and teach only subjective justification are ELDONA (EVANGELICAL LUTHERAN DIOCESE OF NORTH AMERICA, website: https://eldona.org/), COELC (Confessional Orthodox Evangelical Lutheran Communion, website: http://coelc.org/) and Pastor Greg Jackson: [http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/] ; [http://bethanylutheranworship.blogspot.com/].<br /><br />Lito "LPC",<br /><br />I decided to inform to you that the COELC (Confessional Orthodox Evangelical Lutheran Communion) rejects Objective Justification: PDF (7. On Election “Onto Faith” and “In View of Faith”), websites of this pdf: [http://coelc.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/7.-On-Election-%E2%80%9COnto-Faith%E2%80%9D-and-%E2%80%9CIn-View-of-Faith%E2%80%9D.pdf] ; [http://coelc.org/we-believe/].<br /><br />It is written in pages 1, 3, 4 of the PDF (7. On Election “Onto Faith” and “In View of Faith”) of the COELC (Confessional Orthodox Evangelical Lutheran Communion):<br /><br />Page 1:<br /><br />"It is therefore important to clarify ones use of the term “onto faith” to reflect an understanding that God’s elective purpose is accomplished solely through the Means of Grace, by which faith is wrought in the hearts of men, and that it is by this faith alone that man is declared righteous. That is to say that man is justified by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, and that this justifying faith is obtained only through the Means of Grace, that is, the Word and Sacraments. (AC IV & V)"<br /><br />Page 3:<br /><br />"2. We reject and condemn the Huberian view of “Universal Election” in which all have been elected and justified regardless of faith."<br /><br />Page 4:<br /><br />"7. We believe, teach and confess that the Scriptures tell us to reject and condemn all false teachings that teach contrary to the Word of God (Gal. 1:8-9). Therefore, if anyone uses the terms “Election onto Faith” or “Election in view of Faith” in a manner that is contrary to the Scriptures or the Lutheran Confessions – such as Calvinism, Huberianism or Synergism – then such teaching is to be rejected and condemned."<br /><br />Lito "LPC",<br /><br />Do you agree with me that the COELC (Confessional Orthodox Evangelical Lutheran Communion) rejects Objective Justification?<br /><br />What are the your affirmations and opinions about the phrases of the pdf (7. On Election “Onto Faith” and “In View of Faith”) of the COELC (Confessional Orthodox Evangelical Lutheran Communion) that I quoted above?Jorge Luishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923367534285775912noreply@blogger.com