tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post5547854325670758691..comments2024-02-27T00:11:57.219+11:00Comments on Extra Nos: Will the "real" one please stand up.LPChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-13770725835549858672007-10-04T22:26:00.000+10:002007-10-04T22:26:00.000+10:00Exactly!Exactly!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-37387674730795016262007-10-04T10:05:00.000+10:002007-10-04T10:05:00.000+10:00Pr. Mark,I see, now that is interesting. So we hav...Pr. Mark,<BR/><BR/>I see, now that is interesting. So we have the habit of relinquishing labels. Today we are also relinquishing 'evangelical' because it has been so dominated by revivalistic/pietistic decisionalism.<BR/><BR/>The only one that stuck is 'lutheran' and may be even that may be relinquished too. This shows that to the Concordians (if I may use the term), the Gospel is more important than the labels. I like that...<BR/><BR/>It goes to show is that if you got the Gospel wrong, no matter what label you use, you are still going no where ;-)<BR/><BR/><BR/>LPCLPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-75693714928974042792007-10-03T22:31:00.000+10:002007-10-03T22:31:00.000+10:00Lito, I think I have come across something: the 'L...Lito, I think I have come across something: the 'Lutherans', so called, referred to themselves as the Reformed Church early on (even in the confessions), but after Zwingli, then Calvin et al also used that title for themselves they came to prefer 'Evangelical', as is still the case in Germany today. <BR/>Of course, in the English-speaking world that particular moniker is so devalued as to be useless. We could call ourselves 'Church of the Augsburg Confession', as they do in some oparts of Europe, except that even fewer people know what that is than can identify 'Lutheran'. So Lutheran it is, for better or worse. <BR/>It's interesting that some of the oder church signs for congregations in rural South Australia still have 'Evangelical-Lutheran' on them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-5745112511015552412007-10-03T14:20:00.000+10:002007-10-03T14:20:00.000+10:00Oh, yes in this case labels are necessary because ...Oh, yes in this case labels are necessary because there is a line between orthodox (Lutheran, Calvinist etc.) and so called liberal - in fact hetherodox (Lutheran, Calvinist etc.) This line seems to me more important than about being Lutheran or Calvinist. <BR/><BR/>Regards :)Dizmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05104898595453797065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-57583233626937436572007-10-03T09:18:00.000+10:002007-10-03T09:18:00.000+10:00That is right, the Lutherites did not originate th...That is right, the Lutherites did not originate the term Lutheran, they adopted for themselves the term Evangelical, I understand only later did they take up the word Lutheran as a badge of Protest.<BR/><BR/>There is the orthodox or liberal Lutheran depending on subscription to the BoC.<BR/><BR/>But now based on the news below<BR/><BR/>http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22523014-23109,00.html<BR/><BR/>may be a labels war will eventually follow too?<BR/><BR/>LPCLPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-28146871183201631852007-10-03T02:46:00.000+10:002007-10-03T02:46:00.000+10:00**The Calvinistic brand is important such that the...**The Calvinistic brand is important such that there is a fight to find out who is "Truly Reformed".**<BR/>I am not very interested in the matter of labels. Lutheran Church in Slovenia (and also in Austria and Germany) is officially called Evangelical. Now we must find out who is "Truly Evangelical" ;)<BR/><BR/>Regards, :)<BR/><BR/>http://www.evang-cerkev.si/eindex.htmDizmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05104898595453797065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-74635301549290786892007-10-02T15:29:00.000+10:002007-10-02T15:29:00.000+10:00Pr. Mark,But now they are all 'Reformed', because ...Pr. Mark,<BR/><BR/><I>But now they are all 'Reformed', because the Lutheran charge is that they all draw their theological principles form the same well: incipient rationalism</I><BR/><BR/>The Augsburgers are too much ahead of the game, way too much ahead of their time ;-).<BR/><BR/>The charge is correct Pr. Mark. Both Arminianism and Calvinism come from the same scholastic tradition with the RC. Now linking them with RC scholasticism will earn me no brownie points and I would not be surprised if they send me a suicide bomber;-) How dare I say something against Calvinism!<BR/><BR/>It is eventually correct to call the modern evangelicals "reformed" even though many of them are Arminians! They do draw from the same philosophical approach to the Scriptural data. If we look the revivalism prevalent in evangelicalism is really a product of reformed puritanism so they are dipping from the same dish.<BR/><BR/>We need to be precise though when needed.<BR/><BR/>On another note Pr. Mark, the Lutherans (like an elder brother) can help give stability to a weary worn out and tired evangelical by coming along side and grounding them back to justification - an opportunity for refreshing dried up souls with the living water of the Gospel. If you ask me, I think evangelicals need evangelising (ok so I earn another suicide bomber, sorry).<BR/><BR/><BR/>LPCLPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-36999962989464685752007-10-02T14:44:00.000+10:002007-10-02T14:44:00.000+10:00I must confess I've always assumed it was a self-d...I must confess I've always assumed it was a self-designated term, as in 'Reformed Church of the Netherlands'. I will check this, lest I be incorrect (or perhaps someone else will correct me if necessary).<BR/>What I had to get used to after becoming Lutheran (12 years now) was the particular Lutheran usage of the term 'Reformed' to refer to all non-Lutheran Protestants. Previously, 'Reformed' always meant Calvinistic to me. I always thought that was standard English usage until I started moving in Lutheran circles. Previously, one would never refer to Methodists as 'Reformed', unless they were Calvinistic Methodists (few and far between, unless you happen to live in Wales). Similarly one would never refer to Baptists as Reformed unless they were Calvinistic Baptists. But now they are all 'Reformed', because the Lutheran charge is that they all draw their theological principles form the same well: incipient rationalism. The entry point of this rationalism has to do with the answer to the question, Why are some saved and others not? It is most common to locate the answer either in God's will (Calvinism) or man's will (Arminianism). Both answers must be rejected because they do not tally with the scriptural data, but represent man's attempt to apply his own reason where it is of no service. That leads to the bigger underlying question of the place of reason in theology, where Lutherans discern a fundamental error in the Reformed approach. Now, I know you all know this, I'm just rehearsing the tradition aloud here.<BR/>I think Lutheran theology has a point here (obviously! :0)), but I'm still not convinced the Lutheran nomenclature is to be preferred over the traditional one, if only because the rest of the world doesn't use it (try calling a Methodist 'Reformed' to his face and see what I mean).<BR/>But this may be a little off the track, Lito. <BR/>I'll see if I can come up with anything concrete later on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com