tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post1008332713169832364..comments2024-02-27T00:11:57.219+11:00Comments on Extra Nos: Return to the faith of LutherLPChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-76490834442413325352008-11-18T08:44:00.000+11:002008-11-18T08:44:00.000+11:00You have been exposed as ignorant of your own fait...<I>You have been exposed as ignorant of your own faith, for crying out loud(!)</I><BR/><BR/>With what occasion? What part of my faith am I so ignorant of? (The location of Syria and Assyria is part of geography, not Church dogma). I don't consider a lack of knowledge about exotic minutiae to be a "show of ignorance" -- do You? :-\ I'm neither Rain Man, nor Indiana Jones: I'm simply Craciun Lucian. If this is the best You've got, then ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-87468978518170068792008-11-17T19:57:00.000+11:002008-11-17T19:57:00.000+11:00Not how much you ramble, you know in your heart yo...Not how much you ramble, you know in your heart you have not proven anything. You have been exposed as ignorant of your own faith, for crying out loud(!) You said Budapest is not Bucharest. Sure. No one mentioned that in the first place. But you mentioned Syria as where the Nestorians are isolated or confined to!<BR/><BR/>So, you can pretend all you want, but you are here to just show the superiority of Orthodoxy which is a just a SHOW. As they say in America, it's show time!<BR/><BR/>I hope you catch the drift Lucian.Augustinian Successorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04701412663559781833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-12705040684601271992008-11-15T00:11:00.000+11:002008-11-15T00:11:00.000+11:00come you can not even agree on the calendar?Who is...<I>come you can not even agree on the calendar?</I><BR/><BR/>Who is the "we" in this sentence? And what exactly do You mean by "agree" on the Calendar? (As in "agree" with the same language, or what? Or "agree" with the same nationality? Or with the same way of building Churches? Or with the same type of chanting?). And since when is the Calendar an article of the faith? (Does in say in the Creed "I believe in One Holy Calendar" ?)<BR/><BR/>As said, there are a few schismatics [i.e., they have the same faith as we do, but they refuse our communion with them]. (In case You don't now what few means, we have 20 million Orthodox here in Romania, as opposed to some 40,000 Old Calendarists). <BR/><BR/>But what I pointed out to You are not merely schisms: Lutheranism is NOT Calvinism, which is NOT Anglicaninsm, which is NOT Presbyterianism, which is NOT Baptism, which is NOT Adventism, which is NOT Pentecostalism -- they are different Protestant faiths. Nor are the numbers of NON-Lutheran confessions so procentually insignifficant. <BR/><BR/><I>Assyria is not in Syria</I><BR/><BR/>And Budapest is not Bucharest. <BR/><BR/>Sola Scriptura, applied, (text without meaning, whose meaning people in all good conscience and honesty want to deduce using the best of their wits and abillities) leads to a theological "Big Bang" with no end in sight. <BR/><BR/>We Orthodox are NOT pretending to be "united" ("in spirit", or in any other way) to either the Roman Catholics, Monophysites, or Nestorians -- neither do they (either with us, or with eachother)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-43731625724591949262008-11-14T16:35:00.000+11:002008-11-14T16:35:00.000+11:00http://www.nestorian.org/http://www.orthodoxunity....http://www.nestorian.org/<BR/><BR/>http://www.orthodoxunity.org/<BR/><BR/>Assyria is not in Syria. It's in modern-day Iraq.Augustinian Successorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04701412663559781833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-60597407307013178592008-11-14T13:08:00.000+11:002008-11-14T13:08:00.000+11:00Lucian,http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/ea_ca...Lucian,<BR/><BR/>http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/ea_calendar.aspx<BR/><BR/>There are indeed schismatics [few in number], and who are on the Old<BR/>Calendar, but they're not part of the Orthodox Church. (i.e., to be "on<BR/>the Old Calendar" is *NOT* the same as to be an "Old Calendarist").<BR/><BR/><BR/>But actually my question does make sense because the point of the<BR/>question is that if you are so united, how come you can not even agree<BR/>on the calendar? Thus you argument that sola Scriptura produces schismaticism does not hold.<BR/><BR/><I>Then, 500 yrs later, in 1,000 AD, the Great Schism happened, when Rome broke away from us. <BR/></I><BR/><BR/>Actually the Bishop of Rome excommunicated your Bishop from what I could read.<BR/><BR/><BR/>I am sure if I ask those Orthodoxies about you, they would say you are<BR/>schismatics because you are not at fellowship with them.<BR/><BR/>Well I do not think of course I can convince you of the myth of "unity"<BR/>you pronounce, but many people who do not see is not because they do<BR/>not have eyes, they just refuse to see.<BR/><BR/>LPCLPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-2953456368309386012008-11-14T00:20:00.000+11:002008-11-14T00:20:00.000+11:00The Orthodox Church is in the following countries:...The Orthodox Church is in the following countries: Russia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Georgia, Greece and Romania. -- we are one faith. Your question is without sense. Some of these Churches are on the Old Calendar, and some are not, but none of them is in any schism with another. There are indeed schismatics [few in number], and who are on the Old Calendar, but they're not part of the Orthodox Church. (i.e., to be "on the Old Calendar" is *NOT* the same as to be an "Old Calendarist"). <BR/><BR/>The Armenians that You've mentioned are a completely different faith, called Monophysitism, and they, together with the Copts (Egyptians), Syriacs, Ethiopians, and Thomists (Indians) broke away from us around the year 500 AD, some 1,500 yrs ago. Then, 500 yrs later, in 1,000 AD, the Great Schism happened, when Rome broke away from us. <BR/><BR/>And the Nestorians You've mentioned still exist in a few remote villages in Syria, and they are of another alltogether different faith called -obviously- Nestorianism . <BR/><BR/>And there are also Monotellists (Monoenergists) in and around a small monastic community in the Mount of Lebanon; but they're in communion with the Church of Rome. <BR/><BR/>Clearer? :-\Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-12661420127495137992008-11-13T16:38:00.000+11:002008-11-13T16:38:00.000+11:00Lucian,keep on contradicting yourself There are in...Lucian,<BR/><BR/>keep on contradicting yourself <I>There are indeed schisms which hold to the Old calendar as if it<BR/>were an article of faith, but they are not in communion with us, nor do<BR/>we pretend to be 'united in spirit' with them, etc</I><BR/><BR/>So which Orthodox church is the one holy apostolic one? Would that be the Slavic, Greek or Russian?<BR/><BR/>That alone is a question that illustrates the division in that body, so which one?<BR/><BR/>This is what happens when you contradict the truth of the statement, you wind up contradicting yourself in every turn.<BR/><BR/>I am a confessional Lutheran in that I subscribe to the meaning (not the words only) of the words in the BoC as a faithful or accurate exposition of Scripture.<BR/><BR/>Jesus is the Christ as a confession is elaborated in the BoC.<BR/><BR/>Read the theme of the BoC - its theme is JBFA which is Christ alone saves us --- freely.<BR/><BR/>If you take away the label Lutheran or confessional or what ever at all, that would not make any difference to my identity.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>LPCLPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-74028428255667796142008-11-12T20:19:00.000+11:002008-11-12T20:19:00.000+11:00What is the difference between Greek Orthodox and ...<I>What is the difference between Greek Orthodox and Armenian Orthodox? Just the nationality</I><BR/><BR/>Uhm, ... again, for the n-th time: NO! The Armenians are Monophysites.<BR/><BR/>Or were You trying to say that the American Lutheran and Australian Lutheran are actually two different faiths, that You don't agree among eachother? (If so, then why did You bring this up, since I had no idea about it, nor did I bring it up). <BR/><BR/><I>Our confession is not about the Church, it is about the Christ.</I><BR/><BR/>Not if You're a (confessional) Lutheran: the Creed, aka the Confession of Faith, remember? Which is in the Catechisms, which are in the Book of Concord, remember? <BR/><BR/><I>They can not even unite on a calendar.</I><BR/><BR/>Uhm, ... we don't possess the same Calendar for the same reason we don't possess the same language or the same alphabet or the same customs or the same blood etc. But there is no division among us about it. (There are indeed schisms which hold to the Old calendar as if it were an article of faith, but they are not in communion with us, nor do we pretend to be 'united in spirit' with them, etc).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-47924505011101559952008-11-12T10:19:00.000+11:002008-11-12T10:19:00.000+11:00Lastly Lucian,Our confession is Jesus is the Chris...Lastly Lucian,<BR/><BR/>Our confession is Jesus is the Christ. Our confession is not about the Church, it is about the Christ. We take comfort not in that we belong to a Church, we take comfort in that we have the Gospel, the promise of God for the forgiveness of our sins.<BR/><BR/>So when you wake up from the myth as some othe Orthodox ones did, will not ask you to join but believe in the confession that Jesus is the Christ too.<BR/><BR/>Solus Christus.<BR/><BR/>It is Christ alone, not Church alone. There is difference.<BR/><BR/>LPCLPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-33311545117633215072008-11-12T09:04:00.000+11:002008-11-12T09:04:00.000+11:00Lucian,Split? So the "True Church" marked by so ca...Lucian,<BR/><BR/>Split? So the "True Church" marked by so called "Unity" splits? What duh?<BR/><BR/>What is the difference between an American Lutheran and Australian Lutheran? Just the nationality.<BR/><BR/>What is the difference between Greek Orthodox and Armenian Orthodox? Just the nationality.<BR/><BR/>See the analogy? Hope so.<BR/><BR/>So in our discussion, I like to ask --which is an oxymoron if I follow your reasoning --- which is the "true" Orthodox church? Would it be the Greek, Slavics, Russian?<BR/><BR/>The issue of the calendar in Orthodoxy, is one classic example of why the so called "one holy, catholic, apostolic church" marked by their " visible unity" is a myth. They can not even unite on a calendar.<BR/><BR/>So I ask, when do you celebrate Christmas? Dec 25 or Jan 5?<BR/><BR/>The moral is -- before some one point the pile of dung in our front yard, first he should look at the mountain of manure in his back yard.<BR/><BR/>LPCLPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-64003886954589299422008-11-11T22:44:00.000+11:002008-11-11T22:44:00.000+11:00The two Churches/faiths split over 1,500 yrs ago, ...The two Churches/faiths split over 1,500 yrs ago, just like we split with the Catholics 1,000 yrs ago, so it's hardly the latest news ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-77982396464430094442008-11-11T22:39:00.000+11:002008-11-11T22:39:00.000+11:00the Orthodox view each otherUhm, ... again, ... fo...<I>the Orthodox view <B>each other</B></I><BR/><BR/>Uhm, ... again, ... for the nth time: there's no "each other" here: we are two different faiths, two different Churches. :-\ None of us says to be one with the other different faith/Church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-66582046717118931242008-11-11T18:50:00.000+11:002008-11-11T18:50:00.000+11:00The latest fist fights, brawl which broke out betw...The latest fist fights, brawl which broke out between the Armenians (non-Chalcedonian) and the canonical Greek orthodox over who has the right to use the church at Bethelehem is really an excellent reminder of how the Orthodox view each other!Augustinian Successorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04701412663559781833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-62423613364627425752008-11-10T22:49:00.000+11:002008-11-10T22:49:00.000+11:00L.P., my point is simple: they are not of the same...L.P., <BR/><BR/>my point is simple: they are not of the same religion as we are; neither side pretends to be as such. -- We don't say that we're all part of some invisible Church, denominational lines notwithstanding. <BR/><BR/>As for Rick, You can deny him to be a Luyheran anytime (I honestly don't think he'll mind, being a Baptist and all that). But to deny he's Protestant? I honestly don't think so ... I also wish You good luck proving to him and convincing from the Bible alone he's wrong and You're right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-13922570920559810002008-11-10T21:30:00.000+11:002008-11-10T21:30:00.000+11:00Lucian,Your reasoning is an absolute example of sp...Lucian,<BR/><BR/>Your reasoning is an absolute example of special pleading. You deny me the right to call Rick a Protestant but you do the same thing in denying the Armenians Orthodox.<BR/><BR/>If you are going to deny the name orthodox to Armenians, then you should let me deny the name Protestant to Rick. Comprende?<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>But let us go down to where the rubber meets the road.<BR/><BR/>Please tell me when you celebrate Christmas, what calendar you use and we will see if you are a "one holy, catholic, apostolic church"<BR/><BR/>LPCLPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-77394683214959808082008-11-10T20:21:00.000+11:002008-11-10T20:21:00.000+11:00Again: Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox [a.k.a....Again: Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox [a.k.a. Monophysites or Myaphysites], Jewish Orthodox, and Presbyterian Orthodox are FOUR DIFFERENT FAITHS ... in case You guys still didn't get it. :-\Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-77582059819646687332008-11-10T20:17:00.000+11:002008-11-10T20:17:00.000+11:00How is the fact that we beat Armenians prove (in Y...How is the fact that we beat Armenians prove (in Your mind) that we are not one in faith? Armenians are not of the same faith as we: thye're Monophysites. <BR/><BR/>Again: we're one faith; Protestants aren't.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-50573423993510871932008-11-10T11:24:00.000+11:002008-11-10T11:24:00.000+11:00A.S.Here again is Lucian believing the myth of Ort...A.S.<BR/><BR/>Here again is Lucian believing the myth of Orthodox, "one", "holy", "apostolic" church.<BR/><BR/>They do not anathemize they just hit each other....anathemizing is just words, best to do it in action.<BR/><BR/><BR/>If any one wants a proof of myth of "one holy apostolic church", just watch this news video of a fist fight between Greek and Armenian Orthodox believers..<BR/><BR/>http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24627868-401,00.html<BR/><BR/>LPCLPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11352627830833515548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-41329624534441170972008-11-08T21:34:00.000+11:002008-11-08T21:34:00.000+11:00Uhm, ... I know what Orthodox Presbyterians are, A...Uhm, ... I know what Orthodox Presbyterians are, A.S. :-\ No, there are no various Orthodox Churches anathemizing eachother. No, there are no divisions in the Orthodox Church of Greece. Yes, dialogue is going on, but we're not united with anyone You make mention of. No, Nestorians aren't Monophysites, and the two are obviously not in communion with eachother; nor with us; nor with Rome; nor are we with Rome; etc. As for You various interpretations of various Scriptural passages, they belong to You, not to us, and we're not quarreling amongst ourselves about their meaning. <BR/><BR/>In case You don't understand: there ARE divisions among the Protestants (various beliefs among them); but there are no divisions within Orthodoxy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-91887020514035248852008-11-08T14:05:00.000+11:002008-11-08T14:05:00.000+11:00Orthodoxy says that deification is a progression. ...Orthodoxy says that deification is a progression. Then what was the INCARNATION, the CROSS, RESURRECTION all about? The Light of Mt. Tabor is achieved. It is given. The Light is hidden under the present reality.<BR/><BR/>Listen here: FAITH COMETH BY HEARING. Looking at icons is not faith. Hearing the Word, that is faith. The contrast is not between things seen and unseen. The difference is precisely between hearing the Promise and the eschatological reality. You see how superior the true Protestant faith is to Orthodoxy, Lucian?Augustinian Successorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04701412663559781833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-52914224691939933752008-11-08T14:01:00.000+11:002008-11-08T14:01:00.000+11:00There are no multiple jurisdictions anathemasing o...There are no multiple jurisdictions anathemasing one another in Orthodoxy? Lucian, you gotta be kidding YOURSELF! There are no divisions even within e.g. the Church of Greece? Call the pope the antichrist and YOU'll be amazed to see the reaction. <BR/><BR/>There's no division even within the Oriental??? It's not the just the Monophysites, but the Nestorians (Assyrian Church of the East), the Jacobites (Syrian), etc. <BR/><BR/>What's your point, Lucian?Augustinian Successorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04701412663559781833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-59103128848379931672008-11-08T13:47:00.000+11:002008-11-08T13:47:00.000+11:00"Rome and Romania are also ancient Christian commu..."Rome and Romania are also ancient Christian communities; and so are Greece, Gaul, Georgia, Syria, North-Africa, Ethiopia and India: what's Your point? The only `recent converts` are the Germanic and Slavic tribes (the first to Catholicism in the 500s, and the later to Orthodoxy in the 1,000s). <BR/>- The West is Catholic. <BR/>- The East is Orthodox. [I'm here].<BR/>- The Orient is Monophysite. <BR/>- the three are NOT in communion. <BR/><BR/>(It's a good thing though that You didn't say or imply that we're in communion with the Jewish Orthodox or Presbyterians Orthodox as well) :-) :D"<BR/><BR/>What's your point, Lucian? ;-D As I have said before and I'll say it now, reconciliation and rapproachment has been taking place for years. You've missed the boat to Tuscany! ;-)<BR/><BR/>And Presbyterian Orthodox??? It's good thing you didn't Baptist Orthodoxy, huh? ;-D There is no such thing as Presbyterian Orthodox. There is a denomination well known amongst conservative Christian circles, the OPC, the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. Another lesson in theology, the Orthodox here does not refer to a particular Presbyterian tradition -it is supposedly confessional but an it's an adjective to precisely underscore its commitment to old-school Presbyterianism.Augustinian Successorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04701412663559781833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-45051823139649503292008-11-08T13:42:00.000+11:002008-11-08T13:42:00.000+11:00'The reason that the 8th and 9th Synod haven&#...'The reason that the 8th and 9th Synod haven't received so much attention is due precisely to the fact that they were NOT "in-house fighting": <BR/>-- The 8th was about the Filioque and Papal Primacy: we didn't split the Eastern Empire in two halves because of that, as we did in the case of the previous heresies which I've mentioned before. Nor did we fight amongst eachother like crazies about either one of these two things. <BR/>- The same goes for the 9th Synod, aka the Palamite Synod: it was never a dispute amongst ourselves; we didn't split the Eastern Empire in half about it; we didn't fight amongts eachother like crazies about it. <BR/>-- In case You still don't get it: the Orthodox don't think that Palamas' theology is a novum: it's in the Apostolic and Cappadocian and 'medieval' and what-have-you Fathers as well --> *You Yourself* mentioned John Damascene [600 yrs prior to Palamas]; but now You want to play a diferent tune, and say it started with Palamas: You can't stay consistent with Yourself during the course of ONE or TWO days ... but You DO pretend to have the very same mind like men that lived *millennia* before. (The case rests).'<BR/><BR/>You DO pretend that the Essence-Energies distinction is apostolic and patristic. But you know full well that it is not so. The case on this issues rests. <BR/><BR/>And to repeat you have not proven me wrong at all. Anyone reading this blog will know so. Only in your warped mind that you have the truth. Truth CREATED by you Lucian.<BR/><BR/>While we are at it, how many types of union there is with the divine? How many modes? Is it only one, viz. via the Incarnate God only or through the Spirit also alongside? As I have said before the Essence-Energies distinction introduced by Palamism ADDS to the union between Christ and the human race.<BR/><BR/>Secondly, this somewhat implies inevitably that this union is a preliminary to and not part of the deification process itself, thus functioning much like the CREATED grace of Roman theology. So much for criticising Rome on this issue.<BR/><BR/>Thirdly, If Jesus is wholly God and wholly man in ONE Divine Person, then any union which takes place would transfer the same total and complete holiness to man (the communicatio idiomatum). This is so since the union between Jesus and man is not natural but personal - i.e. a union of persons, not nature (this reverses the Hypostatic Union of course) After all even the Orthodox recognise that deification requires the gnomic or PERSONAL will to be actualised.Augustinian Successorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04701412663559781833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-7149234395011092392008-11-08T13:26:00.000+11:002008-11-08T13:26:00.000+11:00"I also don't get the "in-house figh..."I also don't get the "in-house fighting" comment: in case You haven't noticed, all the ancient heresies appeared in the East, and ran like wild-fire, and spread turm-oil. That's because we were the advanced and evolved ones back then, having many schools of philosophical and religious and scientifical thought. The West was in ruins. The East was an Empire of cities, while the West had only one metropolis: Rome. That's why Rome was such a great pillar of Orthodoxy in the first millennium, [peasants or rural communities are high on respecting their elders and their ways --> we are now the retrograde peasants, so we're the pillar of Othodoxy now-a-days] before Carol the Great had the not-so-great idea of building them schools, `cuz he wanted them to be `cool` and evolved like the mighty East. So, after he build them schools of philosophy and theology, what appeared was the Scholastic movement, some two centuries later, with Thomas Aquinas et al. (heterodox Filioque, Papal Primacy based on philosophical monism, etc)"<BR/><BR/>In case you don't know, in-house precisely means within that particular jurisdiction or communion. So, there, a lesson in English for you! You don't know what you're talking about, Lucian.<BR/><BR/>It shows. Poor grasp of details and picking up some cliches form your indoctrination class and buzz words and string these together here ... you still don't make any sense.<BR/><BR/>Look here, let me give you a lesson in Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy and evolution don't go together. Don't confuse Newman with Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy means PRESERVATION, not DEVELOPMENT which is the papal innovation. In Orthodoxy, reason can be a stumbling-block to revelation, unlike in Romanism. Experience precedes reason, reflecting ordo theologiae of persons having the priority of nature, ordo cognoscendi precedes the ordo essendi. This is why to attain tue knowledge of God, Orthodoxy has apophatic and cataphatic approaches. You call yourself Orthodox and you still insist on evolution which is a philosophical concept???Augustinian Successorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04701412663559781833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15967712.post-59519332346929580702008-11-08T13:18:00.000+11:002008-11-08T13:18:00.000+11:00And the Barlaamite party was numerically insigniff...And the Barlaamite party was numerically insignifficant: compare this to the Arians, Monophysites, or Iconoclasts; as for Cyril Lukaris, his party consisted of just one man: namely himself. :-\<BR/><BR/>Wrong. The controversy stirred over Hesychasm was so significant that a synod had to be convened to settle the matter. Do you know what a synod is?<BR/><BR/>The Blessed Martyr Patriarch had his supporters, including students sent to study in Geneva, Germany and England. He commissioned Maximus Kallipolitis to translate the Bible into contemporary Greek. This shows your ignorance.Augustinian Successorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04701412663559781833noreply@blogger.com