Saturday, May 24, 2008

What if

I read in Extreme Theology that Chris had an audience with Rick Warren. See here.

This is a good thing, it is good that Chris is reaching out to Warren. Who knows, Rick might one day realize the error of what he taught? We must never cancel people out, no one is beyond repentance. Who knows, maybe through such conversations, Rick might be brought by God's Word to see the man centered teachings found in his books.

So what if Rick disowns his teachings found in PDL?

What if Rick turns around and says "Forgive me, I have taught you folk a man centered, works oriented form of piety found in my books, so please burn them. I reject all the things I taught there, I was wrong"?

What's next?

Just thinking out loud, I guess some blogs would have to shut down, there would be no material to blog about.

11 comments:

steve martin said...

"What if Rick turns around and says "Forgive me, I have taught you folk a man centered, works oriented form of piety found in my books, so please burn them. I reject all the things I taught there, I was wrong"?"

Ain't gonna happen. The guy is a Southern Baptist. You can call yourself a non-denominational Christian all you want, but that is a bogus term. There is no such a thing (in reality)

Southern Baptists actually believe in that semi-Pelagian theology. It's actually the same dtuff the Roman Catholics believe in too. 'A little bit of God and a little bit of me.' Only it usually turns out to be a lot of 'me'.

He (Chris R.) would probably have about as much a chance of helping the pope to see the error of his ways.

What Chris is doing is to keep other people from falling into that stuff.

Nice going, Chris!

Thanks L.P. Cruz!

- Steve M.

Augustinian Successor said...

Rome can never ESCAPE the charge of Semi-Pelagianism. She may try to EVADE the charge of Semi-Pelagianism. But the SPECTRE of Semi-Pelagianism always lurks in the background and threatens to overshawdow. In fact, Rome IS Semi-Pelagian without even knowing it. Better, she is Semi-Pelagian even whilst DENYING that she is so!

Semi-Pelagianism - Romanism, Erasmianism, Synergism, Arminianism, Wesleyanism etc. always reverses the sequence. Jesus is inevitably the Exemplum dependent upon the will of men who only then receive Him as Sacramentum. This is the result of the denial of the BONDAGE OF THE WILL.

In Reformation theology, Jesus is Sacramentum first. He GIVES, He DOES, He SAVES, He SETS FREE ... only then is the redeemed free to look to Jesus as Exemplum!

L P Cruz said...

Steve M/A.S.

That is quite true, any semi-pelagian understanding of the faith is quite Roman.

I was had a conversation with a penty pastor friend about PDL. He said he was going to introduce it, apparently he did not give much notice on how I choked and my stunned look did nothing to halt his plans. Well needless to say the fad of PDL in his church went in and gone, just another one of those fads. They lose their novelty.

LPC

J. K. Jones said...

LP,

Good post. I’ll tell you what would happen: God will forgive him. Does anything else matter?



Steve Martin,

“Ain't gonna happen. The guy is a Southern Baptist.”

I resemble that remark. But who says we SBC folks can’t repent? I’ve done it ever day of my Christian life.

“Southern Baptists actually believe in that semi-Pelagian theology.”

Not all of us. There are quite a few of us 1689 London Baptist Confession / New Hampshire Declaration of Faith types in the SBC. Find semi-pelagianism in those documents; I dare you.

I am looking forward with great anticipation to Chris’ posts.

JK

steve martin said...

J.K. Jones,

I am happy and relieved to find that there are Southern Baptists that don't believe that one has to make a decision for Christ. I though all Baptists believed in 'decision theology'.
I stand corrected.

Thanks!

- Steve Martin

L P Cruz said...

I will hold the light for Chris, the interaction and dialog is the first step. The fact that Warren even bothered to hold an audience with Chris is a good thing.

Often, we already know what we ought to do, but we lack the courage to do it - repentance is one of them.

It is not that we do not know, rather we lack the fortitude to do what is right. That is our struggle.

LPC

steve martin said...

L.P. Cruz,

Your point is well taken about knowing what to do but not having the guts to admit it, or repent.

But there is also a phenomenon known as 'imprinting'. You know, like when a goose thinks that a cow is it's mother because that's all it has known.

I believe this is true for those that practice law based theologies, like Roman Catholics (many)Southeren Baptists and non-denoms. They start with the law. Then they get large doses of watered down law every week, year in and year out. Pretty soon the poison tastes pretty good and the antidote takes like you know what.

In these cases, the folks are addicted to the law. They know nothing else.

- Steve M.

L P Cruz said...

Steve M.

There have been comments that Rick knew of Reformation Theology with eyes wide open, but he had his eyes wide shut on PDL.

Great point on "imprinting". This phenomenon explains why my relations agree with me when discussing the sesibleness of the Gospel but would still go on with their Romanism.

Thanks for that.

LPC

steve martin said...

Thanks L.P.,

I don't know how else to explain it.

- Steve

David said...

I believe Pastor Warren is a Christian so he has the faith delivered to him. Why he seldom preaches Christ crucified for sinners escapes me. I pray he has not been loving money and success and erring from the faith. May the Lord grant him true repentance.

I thank God that Chris loves enough to dialog with this man rather than just throw rocks at him. I pray that all these churches who historically confessed the true faith return.

God's peace. †

L P Cruz said...

David,

I pray that all these churches who historically confessed the true faith return

Yes, they need reformation not condemnation. Most folk are into Law because that is what the brat understands and the leaders are the ones pumping the idea.

We say as with the Lord, "Father forgive them, they know not what they do".


LPC